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Author Topic:   Can science refute the "god hypothesis" beyond all reasonable doubt?
Parasomnium
Member
Posts: 2224
Joined: 07-15-2003


Message 86 of 310 (486031)
10-15-2008 7:26 AM
Reply to: Message 81 by ikabod
10-15-2008 3:28 AM


Re: Science and Atheism
ikabod writes:
so , if faith has a given cause , then it is evidence for that cause
This can be (loosely) translated into the following syllogism:
P1: Faith is caused by God;
P2: Some people have faith;
C: Therefore, God exists.
If P1 and P2 are true then the conclusion is also true. But it is not at all clear that P1 is true. For all I know, fear, ignorance and certain mushrooms are all very good candidates for the cause of faith. What I am saying is that the cause of faith is not a given. The syllogism then becomes:
P1: Faith is caused by X;
P2: Some people have faith;
C: Therefore, X exists.
Thus, we are none the wiser about the nature of X. That faith has a cause says absolutely nothing about the nature of the cause, which is what you nevertheless seem to imply. In other words: of course faith has a cause, but I don't think it is the cause that you would like it to be.

"Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge: it is those who know little, not those who know much, who so positively assert that this or that problem will never be solved by science." - Charles Darwin.
Did you know that most of the time your computer is doing nothing? What if you could make it do something really useful? Like helping scientists understand diseases? Your computer could even be instrumental in finding a cure for HIV/AIDS. Wouldn't that be something? If you agree, then join World Community Grid now and download a simple, free tool that lets you and your computer do your share in helping humanity. After all, you are part of it, so why not take part in it?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 81 by ikabod, posted 10-15-2008 3:28 AM ikabod has not replied

  
Parasomnium
Member
Posts: 2224
Joined: 07-15-2003


Message 114 of 310 (486123)
10-16-2008 7:26 AM
Reply to: Message 113 by ikabod
10-16-2008 3:45 AM


Put your money where your mouth is
ikabod writes:
not quite , as you need to define X and show the causal link
You said that faith implies the existence of the cause of that faith. You think God is the cause of faith - you never said so, but it was clear from the context that you do. So, in effect you are saying that faith is evidence for God, forgetting that faith can also be induced by madness for instance. So you don't practice what you preach, because you do not show why only God can be the cause of faith.
those who want faith taken as evidence only need to show this cause and how it gives rise to faith ...
OK, show me the cause. Show me God.
just as all quoters of science can show that they can have faith in the validity of a scientific theory .. by showing the methods and rules under which the theory was drawn up ...
While you're at it, show me your methods too.

"Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge: it is those who know little, not those who know much, who so positively assert that this or that problem will never be solved by science." - Charles Darwin.
Did you know that most of the time your computer is doing nothing? What if you could make it do something really useful? Like helping scientists understand diseases? Your computer could even be instrumental in finding a cure for HIV/AIDS. Wouldn't that be something? If you agree, then join World Community Grid now and download a simple, free tool that lets you and your computer do your share in helping humanity. After all, you are part of it, so why not take part in it?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 113 by ikabod, posted 10-16-2008 3:45 AM ikabod has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 137 by ikabod, posted 10-17-2008 5:35 AM Parasomnium has not replied

  
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