Citing Middle Eastern Prophecy Being Fulfilled

PaulK has bumped forth this Lebanon propecy thread as an example of one of my old citings of Biblical prophecy which I have layed claim to being in the process of fulfillment in our times. Since as I stated, Lebanon is just one of the end time prophesied nations of the Middle East I think it best to open a new thread inclusive of all the players in the end times relative to Israel and the Mideastern nations of the region.This thread will focus mostly on the prophecies of Ezekiel but most likely will involve cross references to other prophets covering the events of these prophecies as the thread progresses. That is necessary in order to corroborate the evidence of the relevance of these prophecies to modern era fulfillment.Please understand that this thread is not to be focused on the nation of Lebanon, Lebanon being just one of the nations cited in the prophecy of Ezekiel. I've cited PaulK's message to note that this thread will be in lieu of a response to that message.The remarkable prophecies of Ezekiel beginning at around chapters 15 or so prophesy how Jehovah will punish Israel for allowing paganism to corrupt their monotheistic orthodoxy of devotion to Jehovah and his precepts. This he does via pagan nations which he allows to punish his people, Israel and Judah. Then he goes on to prophesy how after his people have been soundly punished and scattered into all nations he will go after those nations which have laid claim to the land of Israel and Judah which leads up to the restoration of the land, the regathering of his people to his land which we call Palestine and Israel etc.This will all involve wars between Israel and her neighboring nations who lay claim to the land. It will culminate finally in Ezekiel 38 and 39 with Armageddon when the nations surrounding Israel along with other nations of the world body, including North African nations which will attempt a Desert Storm kind of invasion. This is what is known as Armageddon. The invasion will commence with the invading nations enjoying some success when the 2nd advent of Messiah comes to effect the destruction of these nations as they begin to turn on one another (as Muslims do) and destroy one another. The nations of the East cross the Euphrates (dried up) at this time and get into the fracas.Chapter 39 states that the hills will be literally covered with dead bodies and weapons which all will take months and even years to clean up. The nations of the world are destroyed and as this corroborates with other related prophecies, the Times Of The Gentiles ends for the land of Israel and the old Davidic kingdom becomes that of Messiah Jesus who will rule and reign the planet rom Mount Zion, the Temple Mount at Jerusalem.The first nation Jehovah condemns is his own people Israel who have departed from his laws and followed false gods and doctrines This covers a number of chapters up to about chapter 25. There he begins prophesying against Ammon, Moab, Edom, all in the region of what we now call the Palestinians as well as the land of the Philistines which we now know as Gaza. These all are cited by the prophet Ezekiel for destruction because of their chiding with the nation of Israel. We witness the fulfillment of these prophecies as Israel finds it necessary to continually pound away at their cities etc as was the case in the recent Lebanese war and more recently in Gaza.Actually the more signifant prophecy of Lebanon is in Ezekiel 26 through 28 where Tyre and Sidon are cited for destruction for their role against Israel. Tyre and Sidon refer to modern Lebanon.Then in chapter 29 Egypt is cited. During the 1967 war we saw on TV and in Life Magazine, etc all the Egyptian army and air force pretty much wiped out by Israel. Today Egypt flourishes to some extent but as time goes on we will likely see things flair up again as Egypt sides with Israel's other enemy nations for her destruction and demise.Egypt is covered up to about chapter 33 where Jehovah turns to his people and his land. He rejects the shepards, i.e religious leaders of Israel who have become corrupt and seeks out his people in the lands to which they have scattered. He works to effect their change of heart and desire to return to their land.Chapter 35 becomes significant to today's events where Seir/Edom is addressed just before we come to the direct messianic restoration of the land and the regathering of the people to it. In this chapter Edom which is essentially the people we know as Palestinians. Note that in 35:10 these people, Israel's neighbors to the East lay claim to two nations, saying "these two countries shall be mine and we will possess it; whereas Jehovah was there! In other words, The Palestinians, followers of the Muslim god Allah are saying whereas Jehovah was there, we shall move in with our god Allah to possess Jehovah's land!Jehovah's response: After this chapter 36 prophesies messianic pronouncements upon the mountains and land of Israel that it will begin again to blossom and produce after nearly 2 milleniums of desolation. Chapter 37 prophesied the regathering of the people to the land. Chapter 38 prophesies gathering of world body nations into the Middle East as we see prevailing the news today. In this chapter we are given particulars of the siege, the invasions etc naming the prime participants and in 39 we see Armageddon involving the Muslim world as well of the huge involvement of Eastern nations of the Orient.

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BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The immeasurable present eternally extends the infinite past and infinitely consumes the eternal future.

I will concede to you that the prophecies cited prior to chapter 35 related more to earlier times.However if you work back from the prophecies of chapter 39 the fact remains that all of these nations mentioned have never risen to the status that they had before their fall way back then.The prophet had no knowledge as to how much time would pass before the significance of these prophecies came into play. In our time the entire Middle East has taken front stage in world news and events with these regions of earlier prophecy playing significant roles. These nations are the ones which have led the drive to end the reinstatement of the nation of Israel to their land and have laid claim to the land which Jehovah promised to the prophesied restored kingdom of Israel.The prophecy of Edom and the region in chapter 35 is more directly relative to what is being observed in our time. This, to my knowledge, is the first time in history that these descendants of Esau and Ishmael, the Edomite/Moabic/Ammonite people who we refer to as Palestinians have laid claim to two nations which would be Edom and Israel.Note also Jehovah's response which I've cited to the Edomites/Palestinians. His response did not involve Babylon. Jehovah declare that he will make himself known to his people and in verse 5 of chapter 35 it is stated that this will be in the end time iniquity when much blood shall be shed upon Edom because Edom did not abhor bloodshed. Palestinians and others who lay claim to Israel's land have been and are continually being bombarded by Israel under Jehovah's providence with destruction and experiencing much bloodshed due to their belligerence in denying Israel the land which Jehovah has promised them. Palestinian schools have no nation of Israel on their maps and children are brainwashed into the notion that suicide mass murder is noble.In nearly all of the messianic prophecies including the latter ones of Ezekiel, Jehovah states that this regathering of Israel to their land will be permanent, indicating clearly that the fulfillment has not been historical. What we are observing in the Middle East with the nations of the world body being drawn into the region is prophecy being fulfilled in our times.

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BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The immeasurable present eternally extends the infinite past and infinitely consumes the eternal future.

Bluejeans, two points to make in response here:1. How much specific info the prophet received in the revelation is unknown. Did he actually see visions of armies and weapons or did he receive generalized revelation about invasions which he wrote down in terms of (abe: contemporaneous) welfare.As I said before, the prophet likely had no knowledge of how much time would elapse before the prophecies were fulfilled.2. Perhaps by the time Armageddon happens horses will be the major carriers of the combatants and lethal portable weaponry. Horses can go where no tanks can go. Sophisticated lethal weaponry has become more portable than ever. The likelihood of missile launchers designed for footmen and horseback is quite conceivable. As well, the people of those nations are big into horses. Edited by Buzsaw, : Improve wording

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BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The immeasurable present eternally extends the infinite past and infinitely consumes the eternal future.

1. Prophecy can be good or bad and if the texts are about contemporary or past events they are historical and not prophetic.The events prophesied in the latter Ezekiel chapters are clearly prophetic of future events, some of which we have observed.2. Obviously you choose to ignore the obvious relative to the restoration of Israel as prophesied by OT prophets and Jesus himself. That's your prerogative and I'm not wasting my time trying to convince you otherwise.

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BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The immeasurable present eternally extends the infinite past and infinitely consumes the eternal future.

Bluejeans, I suggest you go here and get a lesson on Biblical genealogies. The names in Ezekiel 38 can be researched back to the times of Ezekiel so as to ascertain which modern nations he was referring.Novices of eschatology need to appreciate the fact that they often make ignorant off the cuff remarks showing that they're out of their field of knowledge without some research. That's the way it works with science and that's the way it works with this topic. Try to imagine yourself as Ezekiel in his time. If he did indeed see modern missile launchers being used by horsemen, how else might he describe a tube attached to a tripod on a hillside. Methinks he'd call it some sort of a bow weapon.

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BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The immeasurable present eternally extends the infinite past and infinitely consumes the eternal future.

Bluejeans, listen to me. Lets go at this as if it was a science project. First, we need to assemble all the givens relative to this Gog and Magog.1. This Gog is called a prince. Now let's search the scriptures and learn something about how this word term, prince is used.
a. Isa 9:6 Messiah as prince.
b. Ezek 37:25 Messiah/prince
c. Ezek 38:2 Prince of Magog
d. Rev 1:5 prince/Jesus/Messiah
e. Rev 7:8 Gog/Magog (not designated as prince but shows Gog/Magog refers to messianic fulfillment times. This is after millennial reign of messiah when Satan is loosed for a season to deceive nations/destruction of world.)
f. Dan 8:11, 9:25, 10:13 Prince of Persia (evil) withstood Michael who was archangel/prince of God's people.
g. Dan 8:20 Prince of Greece (evil)
h. Matthew 9:34, 12:24, Mark 3:22 prince of devils (evil Satan)
i. Matthew 12:38 prince of this world (Satan)
j. Eph 2:2 prince of power of air (Satan)2. We see from the above that this Gog is likely an angelic/demonic prince over the land of Magog, Magog being the son of Japheth one of Noah's 3 sons & grandson of Noah. Magog's descendants were the Scythians which migrated into Russia so Gog was likely the celestial prince of that realm on earth just as Persia, Greece and God's people had a celestial prince. Thus the mention of Gog in both Ezekiel relative to the latter days as well as Revelation in the NT referring to messianic era.3. I found an interesting
link for what it's worth. I can't render a judgement on it but perhaps it has some merit. This link tells how the Scythians (descendants of Gog/Magog) had terrible evil rituals etc in their culture, likely inspired by this celestial prince.

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BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The immeasurable present eternally extends the infinite past and infinitely consumes the eternal future.

Obviously, contending with you is a waste, Bluejeans. You have no concept of how eschatology works. Much of it is clearly metaphorical such as all the beasts of Daniel, etc. Your mindset is capable of comprehending the here, the now and the physical. That's it. The natural man comprehends not the things of the spirit of God. You refuse to accept anything observable which lends support to a higher realm of intelligence such as the fact that the land of Israel now blossoms after nearly two millenniums of desolation and of the Jews, God's prophesied kingdom nation being regathered from the nations as these prophesies stated over two millenniums ago.Hopefully my time is not wasted here as other more wiseminded folks who see how phenomenal this regathering of the people to such an area of desolation really is and will give God due credit where credit belongs.When one takes the names of the peoples mentioned in Ezekiel 38, analyzes them as to who the modern descendants are, all one needs do is take a look at the Muslim world and where it's power is being concentrated against this regathered messianic people, Israel. Then go, figure.Your problem is that you get hung up on terminologies, honing in on them and throwing out the baby with the bath water, choosing to ignore the big picture that is clearly designated as to be fulfilled in the end times.

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BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The immeasurable present eternally extends the infinite past and infinitely consumes the eternal future.

Thanks ICant. As well, if perhaps the prophet saw one fire with the missle visible it would indeed be as some advanced version of bow and arrow weaponry.

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BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The immeasurable present eternally extends the infinite past and infinitely consumes the eternal future.

While people are questioning debatable things like weaponry, etc we need to come back to this topic, set aside the jewelers magnification loop and view the whole painting from a distance in order to appreciate the master's work.That these prophecies relative to the Middle East which I've cited apply to modern times becomes quite clear considering the following list of corroborating evidences.The following are just a few evidences that come to mind. There are many more besides these which could be cited.1. The modern people of the land of Ancient Edom, the Palestinians are claiming two nations, their own and Israel. Israel is not on their maps; not even in the schools. Ezekiel 352. After 19 centuries of desolation and global exile, Jews are back in the nation of Israel. Ezekiel 37 (corroborated by numerous other prophets as well as Jesus)3. Nations of the world are gathering to the Middle East where the focus of tension and turmoil is centered. Ezekiel 38, Zechariah 14, Joel etc.4. The stage for Armageddon is set with the nations prophesied staged to oppose Israel and other nations than these supporting Israel Ezekiel 38, 395. The modern cities of Israel are unwilled. Ezekiel 38The above all corroborated by prophecies of cashless monetary systems, TV (ability to see one spot from all nations) Revelation 11, 13, 18, etc. explosion of knowledge, Dan 11, climate change, Rev 16, etc, mixing of races, Dan 2,

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BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The immeasurable present eternally extends the infinite past and infinitely consumes the eternal future.

"We?" Speak for yourself. Obviously you have a vested ideological interest in squelching evidence to the credibility of the Biblical record.Details are OK so long as the thread doesn't get hung up on debatable details, unduly undermining pertinent points. 1. What two nations was Ancient Edom laying claim to in their day?2. Relative to the time of the fulfillment of this prophecy why does the prophet state, "in the time of the iniqity of the end?" Ezekiel 35:5

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BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The immeasurable present eternally extends the infinite past and infinitely consumes the eternal future.

1. Participants relative to Mid East conflict in the latter days will be global. 2. According to Ezekiel 38, the primary nations of the invasion will be from the North and named nations now under Islamic dominance. Thus Russia's support for these nations and their own antagonism towards Israel and the West.3. According to Ezekiel 38 there will be descendent's of Sheba, Sheba's allies and Dedan among the protesters of this invasion. The descendent's of Sheba and Dedan, according to eschatology scholars are likely the British Empire and nations such as the US having emerged from that Empire.4. The resurrection and rapturous ascending of the Christians will be before Armageddon itself but not before the end time events emerge upon the planet.5. World events relative to these amazing prophecies are unfolding daily as we observe. The sad thing is how few are savvy to them or even care.6. What makes this all so horrible is the mystery of evil as Satan is cast out of Heaven on to the earth (Revelation 12), having great wrath, knowing his time is short before being chained in the bottomless pit. (Rev 20} It is this celestial evil empire which now is beginning to wage full scale deception and war upon planet earth against God's soon coming kingdom on earth to go a full millennium.

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BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The immeasurable present eternally extends the infinite past and infinitely consumes the eternal future.

You need to document that Ancient Edom was claiming Israel and Judah belonged to them and that this was a time when Israel was coming out of the nations back to their own land after being scattered to the nations.You also need to document that this was a time when all of the nations mentioned in Ezekiel 38 invaded Israel.Then you need to document that messiah came and destroyed those invading nations.You need to document all of the above before you can alledge that these prophecies were spoken to be fulfilled in ancient days.These nations cited have already vowed to drive Israel into the sea and take their nation and the city of Jerusalem from them so regardless of whether all has been fulfilled, the evidence is there with Israel reborn and the enemies poised showing that the prophecy is relative to modern times.

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BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The immeasurable present eternally extends the infinite past and infinitely consumes the eternal future.

Hi Caldron. Welcome to EvC. I suppose you're assuming that Job has two wives by the statement that Jehovah gave him twice as much as he had previously. Likely the statement is referring to material things etc. We don't know for sure when Job lived. It is likely he lived shortly after the flood when humans still lived for centuries.Job's first and likely only wife is the most likely mother of his second family. I can't verify my opinion but neither can you verify yours.I don't intend to debate about it as it's not the topic here. Back to topic; have you read Ezekiel, chapter 35 through chapter 39? I believe if you read them with an open mind you will see that the latter times of this age are emerging upon the planet.I believe it's chapter 36 or 37 that states that this prophecy is for the latter days and in 38 the invasion is to unwalled villages which was not the case in ancient times.

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BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The immeasurable present eternally extends the infinite past and infinitely consumes the eternal future.

Perhaps if God spoke to the ancients in terms of modern warfare as we know it they would have no idea of what was prophesied. Perhaps God wanted to have the message proclaimed in terms which the world would understand. Up until modern times nobody would know what explosive weaponry was.Perhaps also by the time this Armageddon event happens horses will be the means of invasion. This is highly likely. Ezekiel 38 says the invasion will be like a cloud covering the land. This may possibly be indicative of an airlift of troops and horses with rocket launchers which launch rockets, i.e. arrows.I don't know, Paul, but given all of the evidence that this invasion looks very do-able with the nations (especially the phenomenal event of the regathering and reinstatement of the nation of Israel) all in place as the prophecy states, I'm not going to be too worried by the horse/bow/arrow problem.One should also consider the corroborating modern wonders such as the emerging world government, world monetary system of marks and numbers, weather phenomena, moral decline, apostasy from Biblical principles, global expansion of the gospel of Jesus as he prophesied and much more, all of which enforce the OT prophecies relative to the return of Israel after dispersion and messianic kingdom of Jehovah.Ezekiel is just one of a number of significant prophets who add pertinent end time information to the Ezekiel prophecy which we are discussing here. The reason I chose the Ezekiel chapters cited here in this thread is that they have the most significant sequence of events regarding the reemergence of Israel which has always been claimed by the prophets as the messianic nation to host the world Zionist kingdom on mount Zion.Furthermore, the prophet Daniel as well as the NT prophet John tell us that the abominable antichrist phenomena will stand at the holy place of Jehovah which is undeniably, Mt Zion/the temple mount where the Islamic Dome of the Rock stands today.-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- OK here's my answer to your problem: As I continually try to remind, you will never get a handle on the prophecies or any doctrine in scripture by cherry picking isolated scriptures to fit your preconceived notions. You must apply all applicable scripture in order to come up with the truth.All you need do is read the whole chapter 35 here which you cite. Now when you get to the last verse of this chapter, verse 15, you have your answer. "....so will I do unto you: you shall be desolate, O mount Seir, and all Edom, even all of it; and they shall know that I am Jehovah."Isn't this what I've been saying; that the modern Palestinians are largely the descendents of Edom? Well, here Edom is implicated along with Mt Seir. I see no problem in that. After all, thousands of years have passed since the prophecy and some things are not exactly as they were back then, but we see these enemies of Israel East and south of Israel claiming Israel as theirs just as the prophet of Jehovah for told millenniums ago. BTW, Mt Seir is considered as part of Edom according to Wikipedia: Unless I missed it, nobody has refuted my claim that the Palestinians are largely the ancient Edomites. I believe Edom is pretty much desolate today as the prophecy states and the remnants of their descendents are the Palestinians. If they are not descended form Edom, who are they descended from??The Edomites became nomadic and moved around. I believe Edom is part of Jordan today, as is the area of the ancient Amenities where the Palestinians are now, so the Edomites moved around into Judah and up into Jordan over the centuries. They are not favored by Jordan as I understand, and by anyone, for that matter so they have ended up where they are today. Wherever Edomites/Palestinians are, Edom will become desolate. It has been partly fulfilled in the southeast. It will be completed. The Palestinians claim two nations, their's and Israel, just as the prophet so accurately DIVINELY prophesied --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

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BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The immeasurable present eternally extends the infinite past and infinitely consumes the eternal future.

Caldron, all anyone can do is guess when Job lived. That he is aware of the dinosaurs and that he lived long enough to have two families makes me believed he lived shortly after the flood.This all is another topic and I will not be responding to any more on this. Some of my stuff on this can be found in the archives by a search as I've been with EvC over five years now.

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BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The immeasurable present eternally extends the infinite past and infinitely consumes the eternal future.