|
Author
|
Topic: Citing Middle Eastern Prophecy Being Fulfilled
|
Buzsaw
Inactive Member
|
|
Message 72 of 131 (491342)
12-14-2008 1:43 PM
|
Reply to: Message 71 by PaulK
12-11-2008 2:12 AM
|
|
Re: Mid East Prophecy/Latter Times
PaulK writes: you are now suggesting that the events will happen at some unspecified future time - after horses reenter common military use. Change comes about alarmingly and abruptly, like the emergence of the USSOA (United Socialist States Of America).  Disarmament appears to be the order of the day, nationally and globally. As for the rest of your message, so long as you choose to ignore my cited evidences that the prophecy was not about the Babylonian era and so long as you're not aware enough to realize that global world body/government, global cashless mark/number monetary systems and that the emergence of the prophesied messianic nation of Israel are not emerging, there's no point in wasting our time butting heads (as is usual trying to reason with you.) Regarding Edom, first you argue that Edom was in the wrong area to be regarded as ancestors of Palestinians. Now you're trying to claim that the Palestinians include the Philistines and other farther removed nations which are much farther from modern Palestinians than Edom. You reject Edom, adjacent/bordering and suggest instead, Palestinians and others, far removed. 
BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW. The immeasurable present eternally extends the infinite past and infinitely consumes the eternal future.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 71 by PaulK, posted 12-11-2008 2:12 AM | | PaulK has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 73 by PaulK, posted 12-14-2008 2:11 PM | | Buzsaw has replied | | | Message 103 by Nimrod, posted 01-05-2009 5:55 PM | | Buzsaw has not replied |
|
Buzsaw
Inactive Member
|
|
|
Message 74 of 131 (491347)
12-14-2008 2:51 PM
|
Reply to: Message 73 by PaulK
12-14-2008 2:11 PM
|
|
Re: Mid East Prophecy/Latter Times
PaulK writes: Philistia overlaps with Palestinian territory, while Edom does not. Moab is no further away than Edom, just the other side of the Dead Sea. And I also take into account the history of the Edomites and of the region, which you ignore. We've been debating about who the modern Palestinians descended from. They are nowhere near Ancient Philistia, but more closely related with Edom. They are the ones cited in the prophecies as claiming two nations and the holy place/mount , including Judea, Jerusalem and the Temple Mount. They are the ones cited in the Ezekiel sequence of latter day events including the rebirth of Israel as one kingdom (Israel) (not Northern and Southern/Judah and Israel, as was the case in the days of Babylon).
BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW. The immeasurable present eternally extends the infinite past and infinitely consumes the eternal future.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 73 by PaulK, posted 12-14-2008 2:11 PM | | PaulK has replied |
|
Buzsaw
Inactive Member
|
|
|
Message 78 of 131 (491380)
12-15-2008 9:31 AM
|
|
|
The Bottom Line
The bottom line is that the prophecy is against: 1. The latter day nation claiming their own land and Israel and in particular, the Holy places of Israel, i.e. Jerusalem. 2. The land of Edom and the Palestinians are obviously the ones who come the closest for fulfillment. The prophecy has partially been fulfilled in that the ancient land of Edom is a wasteland and that there is indeed a bordering people claiming ownership of Israel. 3. Of course we have the other corroborating evidence such as the phenomenal return and rebirth of the nation of Israel etc. Anyone who tries to deny fulfillment of prophecy here simply doesn't want to admit the truth.
BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW. The immeasurable present eternally extends the infinite past and infinitely consumes the eternal future.
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 80 by PaulK, posted 12-15-2008 10:58 AM | | Buzsaw has replied |
|
Buzsaw
Inactive Member
|
Re: Palestinians and Jews are Closely Related
Granny Magda writes:
The genetic profile of Palestinians has, for the first time, been studied by using human leukocyte antigen (HLA) gene variability and haplotypes. The comparison with other Mediterranean populations by using neighbor-joining dendrograms and correspondence analyses reveal that Palestinians are genetically very close to Jews and other Middle East populations, including Turks (Anatolians), Lebanese, Egyptians, Armenians and Iranians. Archaeologic and genetic data support that both Jews and Palestinians came from the ancient Canaanites, who extensively mixed with Egyptians, Mesopotamian and Anatolian peoples in ancient times. Thus, Palestinian-Jewish rivalry is based in cultural and religious, but not in genetic, differences. I don't think this says a lot. Genetically the roots of Americans end up in nations far removed. The Edomites as well as other nations have roots in Esau and Ishmael who in turn have roots in Cannan etc. We have no samples of Edomite genes, to my knowledge, to perform a similar study. If we did, they would likely also link back to the Canaanites and/or others.
BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW. The immeasurable present eternally extends the infinite past and infinitely consumes the eternal future.
|
Buzsaw
Inactive Member
|
|
|
Message 82 of 131 (491406)
12-15-2008 6:03 PM
|
Reply to: Message 80 by PaulK
12-15-2008 10:58 AM
|
|
Re: The Bottom Line
PaulK writes: Ezekiel 35 doesn't say that it is against a latter day nation. It DOES say that it is against ancient Edom. This whole prophecy beginning with chapter 34 through 39 is a sequence of the events relative to the restoration of the messianic kingdom prophesied by numerous prophets, both OT and NT. 1. See 34:23,24. Jehovah declares that the messiah, his servant, David will feed the restored Israel and feed them. It is repeated in 37:24 he says, "And David my servant shall be king over them and they all shall have one shepherd." CLEARLY MESSIANIC 2. Then go to 38:8 we read, "...in the latter years you shalt come into the land that is brought back from the sword and is gathered out of many people...." 3. 38:11 In the day of unwalled villages. Modern Israel is rife with them. Not so in ancient days. Anyone who can't see this as a prophecy of the end times of the Gentile age is either willfully ignoring the facts or too stubborn to admit the obvious.
PaulK writes: Ancient Edom is clearly meant. If you want to argue for fulfillment you would do better to point out that there are no identifiable Edomites today. That people has vanished from history Edom is a desolation and any remnant descendents of them are the ones nearest to Edom who are claiming in these latter days two nations and Israels holy mountain exactly as prophesied. Israel is blossoming as prophesied and Edom is wasteland as prophesied. That's ,again, the bottom line.
PaulK writes: The TRUTH is that Ezekiel 35 is about ancient Edom. You have produced no evidence to draw any significant connection with the Palestinians and you have steadfastly ignored all inconvenient evidence - even going so far to assert that Gaza is "far" from the location of ancient Philistia ! You're a long way from the truth, Buz. Yah sure, no evidence.. You wouldn't admit evidence to anything Biblical to save your soul. I pray the scales will fall off your eyeballs.
BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW. The immeasurable present eternally extends the infinite past and infinitely consumes the eternal future.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 80 by PaulK, posted 12-15-2008 10:58 AM | | PaulK has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 88 by PaulK, posted 12-16-2008 1:43 AM | | Buzsaw has replied |
|
Buzsaw
Inactive Member
|
killinghurts writes: How can it be a prophecy when the event (or in this case, the state of Israel)is entirely man made? 1. All kingdoms including David's involved the work of man, but God ordained. 2. The messianic prophecies indicate that the Jews will return in unbelief but when Jesus/messiah appears they will look upon him whom their for fathers killed and mourn over that fact. They will then have their eyes opened and receive the new birth, i.e. born again, i.e. born from above by God's Holy Spirit. This will all come about when Jesus appears in the clouds and his feet light upon the Mt of Olives to where he had ascended way back after he was resurrected from the dead. Ezekiel 36:26 says "A new heart also will I give you and a new spirit will I put within you; and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh and I will a heart of flesh. 27: And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and you shall keep my judgments and do them. 29: And I will also save you from all your uncleannesses;" It was by the providence of God that Israel became a nation, the messianic nation, after all of those centuries of global dispersion (miraculous/divine). It's all happening as prophesied and it all corroborates with many other prophecies relative to the end of the Gentile era, i.e latter days. 
BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW. The immeasurable present eternally extends the infinite past and infinitely consumes the eternal future.
|
Buzsaw
Inactive Member
|
THE TRUTH AND THE DIVINE
Killinghurts, the topic is about fulfilled prophecy in the Middle East. All I can do is cite the prophecies and note what we observe today relative to those prophecies. Then let each go and figure as to what they want to believe. If you fail to connect the dots, that's your problem. The 9/11 attackers were inspired by the Quran which teaches that Islam must dominate the world by force. The Bible says that Jesus/messiah will rule the world via the nation of Israel which Islam wants to destroy. The Bible also prophesies that an enemy state bordering Israel and other nations will seek to divide the land of Israel and some will claim Israel's holy mountain and the land of Israel. So far the prophecies are right on. Watch and see how coming events continue to vindicate the Biblical record as the truth and the divine.
BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW. The immeasurable present eternally extends the infinite past and infinitely consumes the eternal future.
|
Buzsaw
Inactive Member
|
|
|
Message 91 of 131 (491649)
12-18-2008 10:30 PM
|
Reply to: Message 88 by PaulK
12-16-2008 1:43 AM
|
|
Re: Connecting The Corroborating Dots Four PaulK And Others
PaulK writes: Ezekiel 34 has no clear connection to Ezekiel 35. Nor does Ezekiel 37. PaulK, since you and others are having such a problem connecting the dots I'll help you all out with the hard empirical evidence. This phenomenal sequence of events in this prophecy is all connected to the prophesied end time messianic assembling of the nation of Israel to their own land where the messianic descendant of David will be their king/prince and dwell with them in this land. The enemies of this messianic nation are all in place as prophesied after the land has bloomed. All that's left is the eventual invasion of the enemies surrounding Israel and others allied with them, all of whom presently wish for the fall of Israel. Then comes the prophesied advent of Messiah Jesus and Armageddon. Many other OT and several NT prophets corroborate substantially what the prophet Ezekiel here has set forth.
CHAPTER 34. Ezekiel 34:11,12: I will search for my sheep and search them out. ...... I will deliver them out from all places which thy have been scattered, in the cloudy and dark day. 34:13: I will bring them out from the peoples and gather them from the countries; and will bring them into their own land. 34:23: My servant David, he shall feed them and he shall be their shepherd 24: And I, Jehovah, will be their God and my servant David prince over them. 34:26: ...there shall be showers of blessing. 27: and the tree of the field shall yield it's fruit, and the earth shall yield it's increase.......and they shall know that I am Jehovah. CHAPTER 35. 3: I am against you, O Mount Sier.......v9: make you a perpetual desolation.... you shall know that I am Jehovah.....v10: Because you hast said, these two nations and these two countries shall be mine and we will possess it. v14. ...Mount Seir and all Edom... CHAPTER 36. v1: Ye mountains of Israel.......v2: because the enemy hath said against you, 'Aha, and, the ancient high places are ours in possession....v5. ....have I spoken to all of the residue of the nations and against all Edom that have appointed my land to themselves for a possession with the joy of all their heart. v 7. ...Surely the nations that are around about you; they shall bear their shame. (that is nations around and about the mountains of Israel) CHAPTER 37. 6. ...you (Israel) shall know that I am Jehovah. ....v12: ...I will bring you into the land of Israel...v14: I will put my Spirit within you, and you shall live, and I will place you in your own land. v21: ...I will take the children of Israel from among the nations whither they are gone, and will gather them on every side v24: And my servant David shall be king over them and they shall have one shepherd. v25: and David my servant shall be their prince forever. v26: ...and will set my sanctuary in the midst of them forever.....v28: THE NATIONS SHALL KNOW THAT I AM JEHOVAH THAT SANCTIFIETH ISRAEL. 38. v8: ...in the latter years you shall come into the nation that is brought back from the sword; that is gathered out of many peoples, upon the mountains of Israel. ...they shall dwell securely, all of them...v12: ...to take the spoil and to take the prey against the people that are gathered out of the nations v23: I will make myself known in the eyes of many nations and they shall know that I am Jehovah.. CHAPTER 39. v7: And my holy name will I make known among my people, Israel. v21: And I will set my glory among the nations and the nations shall see my judgment that I have executed and my hand that I have laid upon them. v22: So the house of Israel shall know that I am Jehovah their God, from that day and forward. v26. They shall dwell securely in their land v 27 when I have brought them back from the peoples and gathered them out of their enemies' lands and sanctified in them in the sight of many nations. v29: I have poured out my Spirit upon the house of Israel, saith the Lord Jehovah. Edited by Buzsaw, : Fix quoted segment Edited by Buzsaw, : Fix emboldings
BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW. The immeasurable present eternally extends the infinite past and infinitely consumes the eternal future.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 88 by PaulK, posted 12-16-2008 1:43 AM | | PaulK has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 92 by Coyote, posted 12-18-2008 10:39 PM | | Buzsaw has replied | | | Message 95 by PaulK, posted 12-19-2008 2:23 AM | | Buzsaw has not replied |
|
Buzsaw
Inactive Member
|
|
|
Message 93 of 131 (491651)
12-18-2008 11:00 PM
|
Reply to: Message 92 by Coyote
12-18-2008 10:39 PM
|
|
Re: Connecting The Corroborating Dots Four PaulK And Others
Coyote writes: You claim "hard empirical evidence" and all you have are bible verses? No. I have painstakenly, for the past hour and a half, selected out and cited the phrases of verses which prove that these chapters are all related contrary to the claims of PaulK. Are you so thick headed or stubborn headed that you cannot comprehend that?  This not only shows that these chapters are related, Coyote, but that you wouldn't admit to any prophecy to save your soul. (Abe: Perhaps if you want to get serious, you should reread carefully and note on your notepad how many corroborating statements there are in these chapters which tie them together) Edited by Buzsaw, : Delete paragraph and add suggestion Edited by Buzsaw, : No reason given.
BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW. The immeasurable present eternally extends the infinite past and infinitely consumes the eternal future.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 92 by Coyote, posted 12-18-2008 10:39 PM | | Coyote has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 94 by Coyote, posted 12-19-2008 12:12 AM | | Buzsaw has replied |
|
Buzsaw
Inactive Member
|
|
|
Message 97 of 131 (491669)
12-19-2008 9:09 AM
|
Reply to: Message 94 by Coyote
12-19-2008 12:12 AM
|
|
Re: Hard empirical evidence
Coyote writes: If this was "hard empirical evidence" it could apply to one and only one thing, unambiguously. And it would be obvious before the fact, for all time, and not just after the fact. Coyote, you mine out one little statement from six chapters to cite and make something of it. I have provided hard empirical evidence that PaulK's statement is false in that he is trying to claim that these chapters are not relative to one another. That they have no connection one to another is a false statement. My message proved that these chapters are indeed related one to another concerning the regathering of the nation of Israel for a messianic kingdom.
BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW. The immeasurable present eternally extends the infinite past and infinitely consumes the eternal future.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 94 by Coyote, posted 12-19-2008 12:12 AM | | Coyote has not replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 98 by PaulK, posted 12-19-2008 9:17 AM | | Buzsaw has replied |
|
Buzsaw
Inactive Member
|
|
|
Message 99 of 131 (491671)
12-19-2008 9:18 AM
|
Reply to: Message 96 by bluegenes
12-19-2008 8:30 AM
|
|
Re: Exodus!!!
bluegenes writes: Almost half of the country's young people were thinking of leaving the country, the report said. Their reasons included dissatisfaction with the government, the education system, a lack of confidence in the political ruling class and concern over the security situation. The fact is that the nation is there as prophesied and has survived all these decades in spite of rigorous opposition from it's bordering enemies as prophesied. It will be there for messiah Jesus when he shows up in the not too distant future. So what if many are disgruntled with their government. Join the club. After a year or two of Obama, 25% or more of our own citizens may be moving to Costa Rica or elsewhere. Edited by Buzsaw, : Fix quotes
BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW. The immeasurable present eternally extends the infinite past and infinitely consumes the eternal future.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 96 by bluegenes, posted 12-19-2008 8:30 AM | | bluegenes has replied |
|
Buzsaw
Inactive Member
|
|
|
Message 100 of 131 (491673)
12-19-2008 9:34 AM
|
Reply to: Message 98 by PaulK
12-19-2008 9:17 AM
|
|
Re: Hard empirical evidence
PaulK writes: As everyone can see that is a complete falsehood. You provided zero evidence that Ezekiel 35 is messianic. And, as has already been shown there is no likelihood of its being meaningfully fulfilled now or in the future. PaulK, you are being so ridiculous that it's hardly worth my time. Anyone with half a brain in gear cannot deny the connection of these chapters. It's nuts to argue that 35 is not relevant to this prophecy. I've stated repeatedly that Edom has already been partially fulfilled in that the land is desolate but it's relevancy applies to this prophecy in that all of Israel's enemies will be punished by Jehovah sooner or later, including whoever the descendents of Edom are. The Middle Eastern ancient nations all have descendents in this area and Edom is no exception. Not only that, but named nations are prophesied to desolation relative to their treatment of Israel and again Edom is no exception.
BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW. The immeasurable present eternally extends the infinite past and infinitely consumes the eternal future.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 98 by PaulK, posted 12-19-2008 9:17 AM | | PaulK has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 101 by PaulK, posted 12-19-2008 9:48 AM | | Buzsaw has not replied | | | Message 105 by Nimrod, posted 01-05-2009 6:37 PM | | Buzsaw has not replied |
|
Buzsaw
Inactive Member
|
|
|
Message 116 of 131 (500603)
02-27-2009 9:57 PM
|
Reply to: Message 94 by Coyote
12-19-2008 12:12 AM
|
|
Re: Hard empirical evidence
Coyote writes:
I will search for my sheep and search them out. ......I will deliver them out from all places which thy have been scattered, in the cloudy and dark day. If this was "hard empirical evidence" it could apply to one and only one thing, unambiguously. And it would be obvious before the fact, for all time, and not just after the fact. You are offering us a Rorschach test, a passage whose meaning can vary depending on the time period and the interpreter. That is not "hard empirical evidence." Its interpretation based on a priori belief. Coyote, you mine quoted one eensy verse out of a lot of corroborating evidence of what we are observing in the Middle East today. That doesn't begin to refute any of the empirical corroborated evidences contained in these verses.
BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW. The immeasurable present eternally extends the infinite past and infinitely consumes the eternal future.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 94 by Coyote, posted 12-19-2008 12:12 AM | | Coyote has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 117 by Coyote, posted 02-27-2009 10:45 PM | | Buzsaw has replied |
|
Buzsaw
Inactive Member
|
|
|
Message 118 of 131 (500607)
02-27-2009 11:39 PM
|
Reply to: Message 117 by Coyote
02-27-2009 10:45 PM
|
|
Re: Hard empirical evidence
Coyote, why can't you understand the significance of a nation of people who have been scattered globally into many nations for 19 long centuries having returned to their homeland of ancient days as an identifiable people relative to these prophecies which call for their fulfillment in what was termed "latter days?" When the Jews were dispersed to Babylon in the ancient days, that was not a global dispersement, which makes the significance of this prophecy all the more empirical. Not only that, but here we have the very nations which were prophesied in place poised to destroy Israel and wipe them off the map and you can't even see that. How intellectually blind can you be? To top it off, the prophecy will be fulfilled in a time when walls are not a factor in defense of the cities. Plus we have so many other end time corroborating prophecies either being fulfilled or which have been fulfilled; things like global government powers over all nations. Obama is all for that one with high ambitions for global authority. I've cited prophesied one world monetary system of marks and numbers, unthought of in ancient days as globally imposed upon all nations, tribes and tongues. Add to the above the prophesied ability of all nations viewing one event in one spot on the planet. I've cited all of these and you and about every one else here who claim to be educated intellectuals still dogmatically deny the evidence I've cited. What else can I say? You people remind me of the Pharisees who witnessed the resurrection of Lazarus and rather than acknowledgment they called for the death of both Lazarus and Jesus.
BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW. The immeasurable present eternally extends the infinite past and infinitely consumes the eternal future.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 117 by Coyote, posted 02-27-2009 10:45 PM | | Coyote has replied |
|
Buzsaw
Inactive Member
|
|
|
Message 119 of 131 (500608)
02-27-2009 11:44 PM
|
Reply to: Message 115 by Nimrod
02-21-2009 7:53 PM
|
|
Nimrod Derailing The Thread
Nimrod, you're muddying up this thread with a lot of detail which is not relevant to the topic. What you need to do if you want to refute the prophecies I've cited is to address the specifics of the prophecies I've itemized by copy and pasting them one by one and showing your stuff relative to each. If you want to go into all this detail I suggest you start your own thread and do your thing.
BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW. The immeasurable present eternally extends the infinite past and infinitely consumes the eternal future.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 115 by Nimrod, posted 02-21-2009 7:53 PM | | Nimrod has replied |
|
™ Version 4.2