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Author | Topic: The war of atheism | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
greentwiga Member (Idle past 3457 days) Posts: 213 From: Santa Joined: |
Religion is a set of beliefs about God. Hinduism is a religion that states there are many Gods. Islam is a religion that states there is one God. Atheism is a religion that states there is no God. All try to convert people to their religion. When you set about trying to convert people to your set of beliefs, how are you any different or less dangerous? There are two issues here. One is the science of evolution. When a group attacks science there is a problem. The other issue is Atheism. You don't have to be an atheist to truly believe in the science of evolution. I will happily debate an athiest about his set of beliefs,respect but in the end, I'll treat your beliefs with respect.
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greentwiga Member (Idle past 3457 days) Posts: 213 From: Santa Joined: |
Oh, and Stalin didn't murder more people than Hitler, especially the religious, in the name of militant atheism? Mao didn't murder millions of religious in the name of militant atheism? We can both point to our supporters who refuse to harm another and are quite tolerant. We can both point to the opposite camp and find people that committed atrocities. We can even argue that the murderers were not really one of my group, but that doesn't get us anywhere. Tolerant coexistence with friendly debate is good. Intolerant slap downs are not. Don't edit history until it proves your belief.
Atheism is not a religion? You have a belief concerning God. Do you have more evidence on His non-existence than I have on His existence? Without proof, it is a belief.
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greentwiga Member (Idle past 3457 days) Posts: 213 From: Santa Joined: |
Rahvin, very well put. I only have one quibble. You seem to be an agnostic, not an athiest. You said "I do not state that no god exists; I simply state that I have been shown no reason to believe that any god does exist." That seems to be an agnostic. An Athiest catagorically states "there is no God" Thus my objection would not apply to you. Yes, feel free to put down those strange beliefs you mentioned.
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greentwiga Member (Idle past 3457 days) Posts: 213 From: Santa Joined: |
a⋅the⋅ist
a person who denies or disbelieves the existence of a supreme being or beings. I was focusing on the ones who deny that there is a God. Is disbelieves the existence of a supreme being the same as saying that he believes that there is no supreme being? If so, it is the similar to a religious belief. If you doubt that there is a God, that sounds in between agnostic and atheist. Your statement sounds more like a statement I could say, "I doubt the existence of cold fusion, but I'll keep a tiny corner of my mind open in case someone presents much better evidence. Still, I think the chances of anyone doing that is about as likely as proving the existence of fairies." That is intellectual honesty. I was reacting to the people who were saying in effect, all religion is wrong, there is no God and it should be eliminated. I also don't like people that make other groups boogie men. I hate statements that list Jews as the dangerous ones, the Christians as the dangerous ones, or the Atheists as the dangerous ones. Someone wrote that it is the power hungry ones in the group that are the dangerous ones. That is true. I would add, "and the ones that they have manipulated." We can find the fanatics in any group.
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greentwiga Member (Idle past 3457 days) Posts: 213 From: Santa Joined: |
If you say "there is no God," that is a belief unless you have proof. Do you have proof that there is no God? If you are an agnostic, then I don't know what your beliefs are.
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greentwiga Member (Idle past 3457 days) Posts: 213 From: Santa Joined: |
Taoism is a religion that clearly has no God. Buddhism is not a monolithic block. There are forms of Buddhism that don't have a God. Even Jainism and a few forms of Hinduism don't have a God. It is an interesting contrast between Eastern and Western definitions of Religion. When People teach Feng Shui or Yoga in Government settings, they are teaching religion according to the Eastern definition, but according to the courts using the western definition, they are not. Yes, I have read their Holy Books and have extensive experience with these believers.
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greentwiga Member (Idle past 3457 days) Posts: 213 From: Santa Joined: |
Followers of the Flying Spaghetti Monster say that dis-belief in the invisible pink unicorn is a belief. (though not an organized religion.) On a more serious vein, Being a Lawyer is a matter of training and being "ordained" (passing the Bar) much like being a pastor is a matter of training and being ordained. Being a Pastor also requires faith (well usually) Beliefs do not require training or some sort of "ordination." I looked up belief in the dictionary:
be⋅lief 1. something believed; an opinion or conviction If you have an opinion or a conviction that there is no God, that is a belief.
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greentwiga Member (Idle past 3457 days) Posts: 213 From: Santa Joined: |
Sorry, I don't know enough about Dawkins to know what the test is.
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greentwiga Member (Idle past 3457 days) Posts: 213 From: Santa Joined: |
Yep. Don't know and don't care. Absolute agnostic
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greentwiga Member (Idle past 3457 days) Posts: 213 From: Santa Joined: |
Lets see if I understand
No matter how many times you tell me that Atheism does not believe in God, if I believe Atheism is a belief concerning God I am wrong. No matter how many times a Taoist tells you that Taoism does not believe in God, if you believe Taoism is a belief concerning God, not you, but the Taoist is wrong?
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greentwiga Member (Idle past 3457 days) Posts: 213 From: Santa Joined: |
Well, we can agree that Athiesm is a belief. It may or may not be a religion. re⋅li⋅gion
1. a set of beliefs concerning the cause, nature, and purpose of the universe, esp. when considered as the creation of a superhuman agency or agencies, usually involving devotional and ritual observances, and often containing a moral code governing the conduct of human affairs. 6. something one believes in and follows devotedly; a point or matter of ethics or conscience. Educate me, does Atheism fit either of these definitions? I am willing to say it is a belief and not a religion, but it seems to fit these definitions. I am willing to be wrong.
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greentwiga Member (Idle past 3457 days) Posts: 213 From: Santa Joined: |
Now you have thrown in Zeus. That was a religion, I am not neutral about that. The rest I am
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greentwiga Member (Idle past 3457 days) Posts: 213 From: Santa Joined: |
Oh, yes, as some have said, there is no organized set of laws or behaviors.
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greentwiga Member (Idle past 3457 days) Posts: 213 From: Santa Joined: |
The Christian beliefs include a set of beliefs about other Gods. Deut 32:16 says they are strange gods, abominations, demons, Gods they have not known, and New Gods. I Cor 10:19-20 combines Idols, and demons, While Gal 4:8 says they are no Gods. Basically, it says that These gods that others worship are not gods, and some may be demons, which are spiritual entities with some power but not God type power. Zeus, as worshipped by the ancient greeks and possibly fairies, when people truly believed that they had powers, fit into this category. Invisible pink Unicorns, Flying Spaghetti Monsters, Lord Voldemort, and Santa Claus are just fun. My belief in them is that they are fantasy. So, all those things have a place in my religious beliefs. Can I prove anything about my beliefs? no, but they do fit into my belief system.
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greentwiga Member (Idle past 3457 days) Posts: 213 From: Santa Joined: |
Yes, I have read your answers. I thought Atheism may fit; a set of beliefs concerning the cause, nature, and purpose of the universe. For example, if you believe that the universe was caused by a natural phenomenon called the big bang, its nature is a completely physical one, and that there is no purpose but the only guiding forces are evolution and other natural forces, then does that fit? I am trying to ask reasonable questions and stick to generally recognized definitions. You all have got me to adjust my thinking some about Atheism, and I am willing to adjust more. I respond to reasonable responses.
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