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Author Topic:   Pseudoskepticism and logic
Phage0070
Inactive Member


Message 290 of 562 (526850)
09-29-2009 12:04 PM
Reply to: Message 286 by Kitsune
09-29-2009 11:54 AM


Re: The negative hypothesis is not the rational default
LindaLou writes:
I think the negative connotations of the word can cause problems.
quote:
skep⋅tic [skep-tik]
—noun
1. a person who questions the validity or authenticity of something purporting to be factual.
2. a person who maintains a doubting attitude, as toward values, plans, statements, or the character of others.
3. a person who doubts the truth of a religion, esp. Christianity, or of important elements of it.
Then consider me to be taking the word back from those who misuse it.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 286 by Kitsune, posted 09-29-2009 11:54 AM Kitsune has not replied

Phage0070
Inactive Member


Message 295 of 562 (526857)
09-29-2009 12:37 PM
Reply to: Message 292 by New Cat's Eye
09-29-2009 12:15 PM


Re: finally, a description
Catholic Scientist writes:
Sure, so where's the evidence to determine the likelyhood that god is made-up?
Don't have to provide evidence, the default is that it didn't happen. Perhaps you would be better off debating the justification for that being the default.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 292 by New Cat's Eye, posted 09-29-2009 12:15 PM New Cat's Eye has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 297 by New Cat's Eye, posted 09-29-2009 12:41 PM Phage0070 has replied

Phage0070
Inactive Member


Message 298 of 562 (526860)
09-29-2009 12:45 PM
Reply to: Message 297 by New Cat's Eye
09-29-2009 12:41 PM


Re: finally, a description
Catholic Scientist writes:
The OP sets up the discussion and we go from there. For the purpose of this discussion, having the default be non-existence is what pseudoskepticism is.
No, pseudoskepticism is making a negative claim without backing it up with evidence. I am just a skeptic that holds a default position you have an issue with.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 297 by New Cat's Eye, posted 09-29-2009 12:41 PM New Cat's Eye has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 300 by New Cat's Eye, posted 09-29-2009 12:53 PM Phage0070 has not replied

Phage0070
Inactive Member


Message 534 of 562 (529152)
10-08-2009 12:53 PM
Reply to: Message 525 by xongsmith
10-07-2009 2:28 PM


xongsmith writes:
Maybe this example will help. A vacuum box with sensors and windows and a special door. We can measure to our hearts content with the sensors and windows that the inside has reached vacuum. There is NOTHING in it. All our sensors & windows provide us with is the Absence of Evidence of something in the box.
Now to the special door. It's equipped to measure the airflow rushing in when it is opened in a well-known way. A prediction can be made on a whole raft of characteristics of the air flow if it is true that the inside in a vacuum. The door is opened, the data taken and - lo - the air flow behaved exactly the way we predicted it would if the inside was a vacuum. This is Presence of Evidence of nothing inside. I think this is the kind of evidence RAZD wants '6's and '7' to come up with. Not anything off those gauges and laser measurements on the sealed vacuum box.
No, the air rushing in is not "Presence of Evidence". Air molecules interact by bouncing off each other, and the force of their bounce on the walls of the enclosure is measured as pressure. This pressure is of course commonly caused either by temperature speeding them up, or the weight of the air above pushing them along. Standard atmospheric pressure is 14.696 pounds per square inch (PSI).
When you open the valve and the air rushes in, it simply indicates that the air is not bumping into anything. You already knew this from your basic air pressure gauge inside the box failing to register any collisions (pressure) inside the box. It is "Absence of Evidence" for the presence of air.
The real crux of the issue is the wishy-washy nature of the terminology you are determined to use. Those terms are *garbage*; the fact that you looked for air and could not detect any within the chamber is evidence for the conclusion that there is no air inside the chamber, plain and simple.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 525 by xongsmith, posted 10-07-2009 2:28 PM xongsmith has not replied

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