How can we be possibly be happy in Heaven?

And in this condition, if Mr. McCormack witnessed a crime do you think that his evidence would be accepted by a court of Law?Brian.

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And in this condition, if Mr. McCormack witnessed a crime do you think that his evidence would be accepted by a court of Law?

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Fortunately (?) my only experience thus far with courts of law is in the realm of cinema. However, I think your average lawyer would be delighted to handle that cross-examination.

Selective memory?? Now that church I ran from screaming for mercy always taught me to back up what I...we(group think)believed with scripture passages, and I don't remember once being taught about God giving us selective memory so that we wouldn't remember our loved ones(in hell). I don't even think there is a scripture on it at all, but who knows; at one time I had the "faith" to try and find a verse that I could twist in order to substantiate whatever I was tought to believe. I was'nt a charismatic so I didn't believe in handling snakes(not all charismatics believe that anyway), but snake-handling charismatics will point to an obscure text about taking up snakes and not being harmed as a way to continue the practice. Then, inevitably they will get bit and end up dead. And what do you know, their charismatic buddies will say in defense: God decided it was his/her time to die, and we have to accept it. So, finally, we have in my opinion an example of religion going too far, and selective memory is just one device they use to bolster their beliefs. Still sounds to me like this God is in the business of forcing himself on us, doesn't it??[This message has been edited by Prozacman, 09-05-2003]

Yes he didnt validate it from scripture but we were really only having a casual chat.The verse about the snakebite nonsense is at the end of Mark's gospel. The verses from 9-20 were added very late to the gospel, no early versions of the text contain these crazy tests.I think most bibles actually have a footnote explaning that these verses are very late editions.Your stories are typical of the intellectual contortions displayed by some people in order to believe that the Bible is true.Brian.

Oh, excuse me for not validating the snakebite story from scripture, but I'm not at home right now, and I don't carry a bible everywhere I go. I can tell you that it is John Dominic Crossan's(a leading biblical scholar) opinion and mine too, that some verses in Mark were added late, therefor we agree! If people debating this topic haven't already done so, may I suggest a reading: "Jesus: A Revolutionary Biography" by the scholar already noted.

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I was'nt a charismatic so I didn't believe in handling snakes(not all charismatics believe that anyway), but snake-handling charismatics will point to an obscure text about taking up snakes and not being harmed as a way to continue the practice. Then, inevitably they will get bit and end up dead. And what do you know, their charismatic buddies will say in defense: God decided it was his/her time to die, and we have to accept it.

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That bit in the Bible also says that Jesus' followers can drink poison and not be harmed.Any of you Biblical literalists willing to drink some Drano?

I'm not sure of the dates of the Essenes, but the description of hell in the story of the rich man and Lazarus is taken from the Book of Enoch. The Book of Enoch has the gulf between the righteous and unrighteous with the unrighteous in torment in flames and the righteous in paradise, able to view the unrighteous.I understand that most of the Book of Enoch dates to the 2nd or 1st century BC. I'm not sure whether it predates the Essenes, but I'd be surprised if that view of Hades was new to either the Book of Enoch or to the Essenes.

Hi Mike It isn't a problem for me Mike, I am just curious as to how God deals with this obvious logical problem.Imagine for a moment Mike that someone you really love is not a Christian, could you really have eternal happiness knowing that they were in eternal torment in Hell?Maybe it is the utilitarian in me, but I seem to think about other people as well as myself. Maybe I am too nice to be a Chrisitan Brian.

The horror that I find in the area of religious belief has to do with the idea of eternity in heaven.Now I am sure most of us with our lives being what may seem short in that it seems there is not enough time to get the things we want done that it would be nice to have lots more years to watch the growths of families and changes in the world but after say 10,000 years it would be a bit much.Imagine 1,000,000. then we have the say (5,000,000) (10,000,0000)(1,000,000,000) (100,000,000,000) (400,000,000,000,000)
That last one is 40,000 times greater than the age of the universe! This is not even a first step in the journey of an eternity.One would likely go stark raving mad when faced with the prospect of un ending existence. Not for me no thank you[This message has been edited by sidelined, 09-06-2003]

HI,Yes not for me either, I like the idea of the extinguishng of my existence. You would get driven mad with boredom, especially with all the restrcitions on what you can do in heaven too.Brian.

To be completely honest, I have struggled with this concept as well. The idea of eternity horrified me when I was younger because it seemed there would be no end in Heaven. Now, though, I believe that time is irrelevant in Heaven, and it does not scare me the least.Also, Brian, I am getting back to you in the "Logical fallicies in the Bible" topic. I was in Columbus all weekend for an Ohio State football game, so I did not have a chance to reply.

HI Phil,No problem, im pretty busy here myself as well.Brian.

Brian :I'm sorry you haven't been able to understand about such things as you ask here. Deeper yet is my sorrow that you are getting such bad feedback as, e.g., that of Prozacman, et al..Here's the problem: while I could certainly respond to your question, the vast number of posts of yours that I've read plainly tell me that nothing that you hear will make you change your mind. Stated differently, you appear to have a firmly-established position and are now hell-bent (no pun intended) on securing "evidence" for that position.Give me some indication that I'm wrong and I'll be more inclined to speak about it with you. Otherwise, you are, of course, free to continue listening to whomever you desire. In any event, be assured that heaven is indeed far better than all that is advertised.Joralex[This message has been edited by Joralex, 09-08-2003]

Hey, Jorge! You're back, and I'm glad to see that your arrogance is undiminished!

Coragyps writes : "Hey, Jorge! You're back, and I'm glad to see that your arrogance is undiminished!"Should I take that as a "welcome back"... I wonder?And if my "arrogance is undiminished", neither is your tendency towards ad hominem, Coragyps. I mean, why would you even suggest "arrogance"?Try and behave, will ya. Joralex