Faith writes:
Christopher Columbus came to America with the strong conviction that God was sending him to bring Christ to the new world. The first pilgrims came with the strong conviction that it was their mission to establish a new order under Christ's rule.
So what?
Believe me, Columbus was out to make money. Regardless, whatever he was thinking, I can't see how that has any bearing on a country on a different continent that wasn't founded for almost another 300 years.
Faith writes:
The fiirst schools in America taught first graders from a book that rehearsed the teachings of the Bible on morality and the nature of God through the Westminster Catechism.
So what?
It's also true that up until the 19th century girls almost never got more than the most rudimentary 3 R's education and blacks commonly didn't get even that much. You want to hold that ups as your standard as well?
Faith writes:
Most of the founding fathers are on record saying that the kind of government they gave us depends for its functioning on a religious and moral people and their context was clearly Christianity.
Not true, and so what if it was?
They could have all been snake worshipers, bigamists and coke addicts, too. If they didn't put it in the Constitution, it has no bearing on the working principles of this country.
Faith writes:
ALL our universities, Harvard, Yale, Princeton, Rutgers, a dozen or more others, were originally founded in the name of Christ and for the propagation of His truths. Harvard's motto has been truncated to Veritas but it originaly referred to the Truth of Christ.
So what?
Faith writes:
Alexis de Toqueville wrote that the most salient thing he observed about America was its religious nature, that it was religious through and through, and that Americans always based their claim to freedom on their allegiance to Christ. He pointed out the contrast between that belief and the view in France that freedom and Christianity were separate and even mutually exclusive ideas. Funny how so many now have the French view and we've lost the original American understanding.
So what?
Faith writes:
Law in America was originally based on Christian principles. The reason the colonies had a religious oath test was that they wanted to insure that public servants would be true to the sort of principles that would at least work on their consciences to keep them from misusing their power.
A debatable point, and so what if it were true?
Faith writes:
It was Benjamin Franklin, who was not himself really a Christian but clearly believed in God, who admonished the first Congress that they should open in prayer, as it is God who would either make or break the new nation.
So what?
Even if you could find a verifiable source for this claim, which I doubt, Franklin's advice hardly goes as far as urging that Congress incorporate Christian principles (whatever those are) in their legislation.
Faith writes:
Examples like this can be multiplied many times over. Now THAT is the sense in which America was originally a Christian nation, that it was intended to be Christian principles that guided its formation and institutions.
What that shows me is that most people in Europe and the colonies in the 18th century was predominantly Christian.
That's the sense in which the United States was and primarily still is a Christian nation - that a majority of people who live here account themselves as Christians. And since it's often a fundie trope that most so-called Christians aren't
really Christians in their hearts, making True Christians a decided minority, you might not even be able to claim that by those standards we're a Christian Nation at all.
Faith writes:
It was NOT to be a Christian nation in the sense that everyone had to belong to a particular denomination or even to a Christian church. The very concept of FREEDOM OF RELIGION derives from Christian principles.
I have to laugh. Freedom of religion is decidedly NOT a Christian concept, unless you want to assert that freedom of religion consists of either being a follower of the One True Religion or deciding to be damned by following a False Path.
Faith writes:
When Washington wrote to the pirates of Tripoli that America was not a Christian nation he could only have meant that Christian beliefs are not forced on the citizens and there is no officially established religion...
Or maybe Adams actually meant what he said. Again, the fact that the majority of its citizens claim to be Christians doesn't make the government Christian.
Faith writes:
The odd fact is that people of other beliefs can be free to practice them only under a Christian government.
No, the fact is that it's only in a secular society that individuals are free to follow whatever religious path they wish.
Faith writes:
All we ever hear are about the failures of people to live up to it, people being fallible, including the founders, about the Deism of the founders (many were but that Deism was based on a Biblical view...
This only makes sense if you want to assert that a belief in God as an impersonal force with little or no interest in human affairs is the same thing as a belief in the necessity of a personal relationship with a God who knows every detail of your life.
Faith writes:
...about the terrible mistake of slavery (no, that was NOT written in the Consitution, the practice of slavery violated the true meaning of the Constitution and that eventually came out).
Um, let's take a look at Article IV Section 2:
quote:
No Person held to Service or Labour in one State, under the Laws thereof, escaping into another, shall, in Consequence of any Law or Regulation therein, be discharged from such Service or Labour, But shall be delivered up on Claim of the Party to whom such Service or Labour may be due.
Hmmm, involuntary servitude. Just who do you think they were referring to? Nope, they're not using the S word, but there's no argument that this clause was explicitly meant to assure the slave-holding states that the free states weren't going to be safe havens. In fact, I believe that even in the North, the law was that if you were black, even if you had never been a slave, any white man could claim that he was your master and demand the return of his property. You couldn't contest this, since blacks weren't allowed to testify in court, so unless you had a white friend to vouch for you, off you went to the plantation. All perfectly constitutional.
America's success is profoundly dependent on its secular nature. Sorry if you'd like it otherwise. However, it would be an interesting thought experiment to figure out what the United States
would be like if it were a Christian Nation with religious principles incorporated in its constitution. Just the blasphemy laws alone would have quite an effect.
I have no time for lies and fantasy, and neither should you. Enjoy or die.
-John Lydon
What's the difference between a conspiracy theorist and a new puppy? The puppy eventually grows up and quits whining.
-Steven Dutch
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