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Author Topic:   Did Jesus betray Judas?
Flyer75
Member (Idle past 2454 days)
Posts: 242
From: Dayton, OH
Joined: 02-15-2010


Message 4 of 64 (563211)
06-03-2010 10:04 PM
Reply to: Message 3 by hotjer
06-03-2010 8:41 PM


Interesting.....
Chimp,
Very interesting post to say the least.
A Christian accepts events in life as free will coupled with the sovereignty of God.
The betrayal of Christ was predicted almost to a "t" in the OT. Judas wasn't named but the price was. One could question, did Judas know his Scripture well enough to heroically fill this role or did events happen so fast that week that it completely slipped his mind and he used his own free will to fulfill the prophecy?????
You ask: was his execution necessary to save mankind? Yes, it was. It was part of the covenant in the OT, fulfilled in the NT. The second part, did he "need" Judas to fulfill this role. That's a toughy...yes and no, maybe? lol. Again, most, if not all, of the events surrounding his crucifixion were predicted, in the OT. One would have to say that the role would have been filled by somebody, if not Judas, in God's sovereign plan.
Edited by Flyer75, : No reason given.
Edited by Flyer75, : No reason given.

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Flyer75
Member (Idle past 2454 days)
Posts: 242
From: Dayton, OH
Joined: 02-15-2010


Message 18 of 64 (563335)
06-04-2010 11:32 AM
Reply to: Message 5 by Peg
06-04-2010 12:34 AM


Re: Interesting.....
the fact was that none of the other apostles had any idea that Jesus was going to be killed so why would Judas?
When men tried to arrest Jesus on the night of his trial, his apostles tried to fight them off, so they certainly werent under any impression that this was meant to happen.
Good point. The problem with the apostles and with Jews still to this day who read the OT faithfully is that then and now, they were looking for an earthly king or saviour. Christ addressed this numerous times in fact in the NT.

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Flyer75
Member (Idle past 2454 days)
Posts: 242
From: Dayton, OH
Joined: 02-15-2010


Message 19 of 64 (563338)
06-04-2010 11:42 AM
Reply to: Message 12 by Larni
06-04-2010 6:41 AM


Re: Interesting.....
This is what I've never understood: why did Yahweh decide to have an ultra strict law that nobody could live up to and then give a get out clause in the first place?
Why not relax the laws (or make them more reasonable in the first place) and nobody would have had to betray anyone or get crucified and preople can still get into heaven?
I assume that because we are talking about Jesus here, that Yahweh is the current ever loving, forgiveness merchant rather than his older incarnation of a total bloodmunger.
Why did Jesus have to die? Why did neoYahweh not just say "look fellas, I know in the past the law was a bit of a fucker, but now I'm seeing things a different way: come on in the gates to heaven are open. No don't worry Jesus, I've decided by fiat that you don't have suffer. Any one for nachos?"
Good questions that just about everyone asks at one time or another.
Again, God is sovereign so I'm not going to claim to have the exact answer to why did Jesus have to die, why not relax the rules?
One, God is perfectly holy and sinless. Something we can not fully grasp as we humans are surround by sin, evil, death on a daily basis. But let's not go to extremes. Let's hypothetically say that we did have someone who wasn't born sinful and lived a sinless life for 90 years and on his death bed, he thought lustfully of the lovely 21 year 40 DD nurse attending to him. (why he wouldn't think that when he was 21 is reason for question but stay with me)....and he croaks. In the eyes of God, he will not enter heaven, he sinned, he did not accept his sacrifice for mankind. Brutal!!!! you cry out, no way! scream the masses. Hitler maybe, but not grandpa!!!! Well, God is perfectly holy, and sin cannot enter into presence.
Thus the blood sacrifice for our sins because none of us, no matter how relaxed the rules, could live up to the standard of the creator. The "ritual" of the blood sacrifice began in the OT with Passover, Christ in the NT becomes the passover lamb.
And nachos rule!
Edited by Flyer75, : No reason given.

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Flyer75
Member (Idle past 2454 days)
Posts: 242
From: Dayton, OH
Joined: 02-15-2010


Message 23 of 64 (563442)
06-04-2010 10:58 PM
Reply to: Message 22 by Peg
06-04-2010 10:55 PM


Re: Interesting.....
Peg, Good points about Adam and the correlation to Christ. Thus, Christ being referred to as the "Last Adam" by most Christians.

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Flyer75
Member (Idle past 2454 days)
Posts: 242
From: Dayton, OH
Joined: 02-15-2010


Message 42 of 64 (563575)
06-05-2010 11:28 PM
Reply to: Message 31 by cavediver
06-05-2010 6:28 AM


Re: Interesting.....
Or is it not his choice...?
I would say it his choice.
But, what makes that dispicable? Dispicable would be if God just sat back and never gave us a way out, but he has given us that out.....so even a sinful human being will be able to enter into His presence and avoid eternal damnation.

This message is a reply to:
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