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Author Topic:   Did Jesus betray Judas?
Hyroglyphx
Inactive Member


Message 51 of 64 (563899)
06-07-2010 9:12 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by Jumped Up Chimpanzee
06-03-2010 7:00 AM


The historical Jesus
Or was his execution always a necessary part of a grand plan to save us? Was it necessary for Jesus to betray Judas by befriending him to ensure that Judas was then in a position to betray Jesus in return, so that Jesus would get arrested, you know, against his will? (I hope you follow the plot.)
Yep, we have an understanding.
Well, among the Nag Hammadi collection of non-canonized books is a Coptic text of the Gospel of Judas. You might recall it made headlines a few years ago after having been rediscovered.
In the Gospel of Judas it portrays him as a facilitator of Jesus, not a betrayer. His most trusted ally, if you will, to help him be arrested and crucified so that he could enact the world's most elaborate hoax.
There have been some speculation that Jesus did whatever he could (throwing shit around the temple marketplace and whipping people, entering through the south gate on a donkey) to entice them to kill him so that he could be martyred.
Why? For the very reason we are speaking about him now. He is legend. He is the most discussed human being in human history. An entire religion is centered around him and in another he is a central figure. Maybe he just wanted to pull off the world's greatest hoax to immortalize himself.
I don't know. But supposing that Jesus was a real figure in human history we must consider what C.S. Lewis noted in his trilemma argument; that Jesus was definitely one of three things:
1. Lord (was exactly who he claimed to be)
2. Lunatic (thought he was what he claimed to be, but was deluded)
3. Liar (knew he was not what he claimed to be)
Edited by Hyroglyphx, : No reason given.

"Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from mistaken conviction." — Blaise Pascal

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Jumped Up Chimpanzee, posted 06-03-2010 7:00 AM Jumped Up Chimpanzee has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 52 by Jumped Up Chimpanzee, posted 06-07-2010 10:16 AM Hyroglyphx has replied

  
Hyroglyphx
Inactive Member


Message 54 of 64 (563937)
06-07-2010 12:46 PM
Reply to: Message 52 by Jumped Up Chimpanzee
06-07-2010 10:16 AM


Re: The historical Jesus
I agree with your whole post except for the first possibility noted by C.S. Lewis that Jesus could have been
"Lord (exactly who he claimed to be)".
That's not a possibility?
It is inconceivable that such a perfect entity, as Jesus/God are portrayed to be, could have instigated such a convoluted and hypocritical scheme whereby he had to get someone in position to betray him in order to achieve something.
That would be assuming that the Gospel of Judas is some heretical document written after-the-fact. If so, I would tend to agree with you. The Gnostics, though, saw Jesus and God much differently as modern Christians do.

"Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from mistaken conviction." — Blaise Pascal

This message is a reply to:
 Message 52 by Jumped Up Chimpanzee, posted 06-07-2010 10:16 AM Jumped Up Chimpanzee has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 55 by Jumped Up Chimpanzee, posted 06-07-2010 1:06 PM Hyroglyphx has not replied

  
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