Did Jesus betray Judas?

the fact was that none of the other apostles had any idea that Jesus was going to be killed so why would Judas?When men tried to arrest Jesus on the night of his trial, his apostles tried to fight them off, so they certainly werent under any impression that this was meant to happen.

its quite simple reallyWhen Adam and Eve recieved their punishment for disobedience, Death, God needed to alter their genetic makeup to include death. Their genes were passed onto all their children so we were born with their genetics including, death.For God to remove this genetic flaw from us, he needed the life of a perfect corresponding human to replace Adam. If the one whom God chose would willingly sacrifice his life for this purpose, then God would accept the life of that one as the new 'father' of all mankind and therefore God could legally remove death from us because that perfect man would have no genetic flaws with which to pass onto us. Jesus was perfect in every way and made that sacrifice willingly in order for us to choose which father we wanted as our own. We could choose Adam and his sin, or Jesus and his perfect life. For those who choose Adam, nothing will change for them. For those who choose Jesus, they will have the opportunity to live forever in perfection by taking on his image as the above scripture shows. Edited by Peg, : included scripture

thanksi just included the scripture

This is a good observation about our inablity to live up to Gods standards and I agree with you that none of us can. But this isnt because his standards are too high.Jesus life course proved that a 'perfect' person can in fact live by Gods standards. We though are not perfect and this is why God grants us forgiveness for our sins...this is why he is merciful with us...he recognizes our sinful condition and our inability to live up to his standards.But he is willing to provide us with concessions and to prove it he sent his son into the world to be a mediator for us. Jesus intercedes when we sin so that that God will forgive the sin

The blood sacrifices came about because of Adams sin.When the death sentence was imposed on Adam, he had to die to pay for his disobedience. Romans 3:23 "the wages sin pays is death
So by death, Adam would pay the price of sin.This is why his decendents realised that they would also need to pay the same price for their own sin. As a way to appease God, they would offer other sacrifices but these would never abolish their inborn sin...only death would do that. Romans 6:7 He who has died has been acquitted [justified] from his sin. Jesus had no sin, therefore he never had to die to pay for it. He was a perfect sinless man and he made the sacrifice of his perfect life in compensation for all of mankinds sinful life. When he offered this to God, God accepted it as the basis for his perfect law "life for life"this is why we are told that thru Jesus, mankind can gain salvation from sin and death. But as Paul shows, we must put faith in that sacrifice
Romans 5:1-2 "Therefore, now that we have been declared righteous as a result of faith, let us enjoy peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ, 2through whom also we have gained our approach by faith into this undeserved kindness in which we now standI guess to bring it back in line with the theme "did Jesus betray Judas" the answer is No. Judas chose to betray Jesus all on his own. And if it wasnt judas, it woudl have been someone else who would have betrayed him. The problem with Judas was that his heart was not really in it, he was stealing from the collection money which showed that his motives were not right toward Jesus anyway. Edited by Peg, : No reason given.

there is no 'after death' judgement. The judgement has already been handed out and it IS death. Once we die, we pay for our sins and all is forgiven...end of story. the full realisation of the 'release from death' will not happen until the beginning of the 1,000 rule of Christ.Currently we are self governed so before Jesus rule can begin, mans rulership and authority has to be done away with. That is what Armageddon will do...it will bring an end to human rulership and bring in the rulership of christ. Daniel 2:44 "the God of heaven will set up a kingdom that will never be brought to ruin, it will crush and put an end to all these kingdoms and it itself will stand to times indefinite" Then and only then will death be no more because God will remove the genetic factor that causes us to die. Edited by Peg, : No reason given.

Perhaps if he prevented them from having children, yes. But he did not prevent them from fulfilling their original mandate to 'fill the earth' with offspring. So unfortunately, the death that became a part of their genetic makeup was passed onto us.And God did not put Judas through anything. Judas chose his own path just as Adam and Eve chose their own path....we have free will and God does not interfere with it. He could have made us like robots or like the animals who are goverened by instinct...but he made us to be like himself with the ability to reason and make our own choices. What we need to understand is that the laws that God has set as the standard for all intelligent creatures, he himself also abides by. So yes he could have bypassed his own laws on equal compensation, but that would have made him a hypocrit which he is not.The mosaic law stipulated that if one person took a life, then he must surrender his own life in order to pay for the life lost. In the case of Adams sin, he could only make the payment for himself. So there was no other way to save mankind unless God provided another life to compensate for the one Adam lost.This is why he sent his son. He sent Jesus to be that compensation on behalf of all of Adams offspring. This is in complete harmony with his laws on equal compensation....hand for hand, tooth for tooth, life for life.Judas wasnt 'engineered' to betray Jesus. In fact, even if Judas had not had betrayed him, Jesus would have still been put to death because the religious leaders had already determined that they would kill Jesus before Judas betrayed him. The betrayal was prophecied to happen just as many other aspects of Jesus death were prophecied. Judas wasnt the cause of Jesus death...he simply fulfilled one of the prophecies surrounding Jesus death. its not that simple. Humans are a physical species and those physical traits are passed on from one to the other. After Adam had sinned and been convicted of death, that became a part of his genetic makeup....death was introduced to his physical body. This is why his children inherited the same trait because the rules of genetics is inbuilt. It can only be removed by God because God placed it there....but he will only remove it if he has the legal right to remove it. Again, no. Jesus had to die in order to pay the debt that we inherited from the first man. His debt was death...which became our debt due to inheriting the trait from him. The only way God could remedy the situation was to legally provide someone who could pay the debt for us.If no one ever paid the debt for us, then we will continue to die and we will never be reunited with God. True, God could have killed Adam and Eve and Satan right back in the garden of Eden. He could have created a new human couple but he chose not to for good reason.The problem of our sin was not just between us and God. There are myriads of holy angels who witnessed these events in eden, they heard Satans contradiction of Gods law and they heard his accusation against mankind.So Gods way of dealing with the situation has been to allow Satan time to try and prove his claims. This has allowed ALL observers to determine if Gods way of ruling and his laws are righteous or not. Jesus was able to prove that a perfect man could remain loyal under all circumstances and the disasterous rule of mankind over the past 6,000 odd years has shown that we cannot successfully rule ourselves. This is the perfect answer to Satans claim and God has been proved himself and his rulership righteous and wise beyond all doubt. Edited by Peg, : No reason given.

i think you are not taking into consideration the fact that they were not created with death as a normal process of their life.They were made to live forever which means that their bodies were genetically capable of doing so....it would have been a necessary part of their makeup in order to live forever. Whatever gene is responsible for death, Adam and Eve surely did not have it when they were created.

the real implication of what Jesus meant by 'It would have been better for him if he had not been born' has nothing to do with eternal torment because that teaching is not a biblical one.The answer lies in what Jesus said about people who deliberately and willfully sin against Gods holy spirit. All sins are forgivable except a deliberate sin against the workings of Gods holy spirit according to Jesus words at Matt 12:31 If you read the account in Matthew, you'll see that he said this after he had been accused of healing a demon possessed man by means of Satans power. Basically he was being accused of working for Satan, not God.
So the people who were accusing him of this were actually working against Gods holy spirit because it was by Gods holy spirit that Jesus could perform the miracles.This is why Jesus words about Judas are understood to mean that he would not be forgiven for betraying the Son of God because he was actually working against Gods holy spirit by doing so. The punishment for this sin is eternal 'death'. No chance of a resurrection, no hope of living forever...just death.And what led Judas to his actions was the culmination of a course of hypocrisy and dishonesty. He had been a thief, robbing the treasury that had been entrusted to his care and when he saw Mary anointing Jesus with very expensive perfume, Judas complained about wasting it. Jesus did not buy into it and Jesus silenced him. Then out of selfish spite, Judas went to the rulers and bargained to betray Jesus for thirty pieces of silver. Later he killed himself because he was also a coward who would rather die then answer for his error...he may have felt some regret but he certainly wasnt sorry for what he had. Edited by Peg, : No reason given.

i dont recall a thread specificially about eternal torment.

simple answer, they were not created in Gods image.God is an eternal being therefore the man and woman whom he created in his image would also have to be eternal. And we can see the prospect of eternal life was given to the man and woman because God told them not to eat from the tree of good and bad as the results would be death Gen 2:17 "for in the day you eat from it you will positively die." Logically, if they had not eaten from it they would not have died....otherwise how could this be any sort of punishment. If they were always going to die, then this punishment was not really a punishment at all.He created the animals and none of them are eternal, although some outlive humans by a long shot, but we can understand this difference because none of them were said to be made in Gods image or in his likeness. Edited by Peg, : No reason given.

that is according to your strange idea that there were two creations of mankind which is not what Jesus believed. there is no reason to believe that animals were made to live forever
The only person who God mentions anything about living forever is Adam when he says he removed him from the garden to prevent him eating from the 'tree of life' Romans 5:12 shows the context of the 'kosmos' in that verse is with regard to 'mankind'
Through one man sin entered into the world and death through sin, and THUS DEATH SPREAD TO ALL MEN because they had all sinnedThe angels certainly do not die and even Satan has been alive since he was created....so death did not spread to them...only to all men.

tell me, how do you get something perfect from something imperfect?

like i said, the death of Jesus wasnt dependent upon Judas. The priests had already decided that they would kill him, that was well before Judas betrayed Jesus.Judas didnt really have a 'role' in Jesus death as such just as the soldiers who strung him to the stake did not. Judas was simply one who acted in such a way as to fulfill one of the prophecies that were fortold a long time before hand. But the important thing is that Jesus death was not depending on Judas actions. It would have happened with or without Judas...the priests would have arrested Jesus and put him on trial with or without judas help.