When does design become intelligent? (AS OF 8/2/10 - CLOSING COMMENTS ONLY)

To simulate evolution. It can create a program which simulates evolution, and which produces the appearance of design with neither intelligence nor a designer.Just as a program which simulates the weather can do so without the existence of a thunder-god.But yes, the computer itself had a designer, so with only a couple of trivial errors in reasoning you could turn that into an argument for Deism.---Can't you guys think up another way to be wrong about genetic algorithms? I've only ever seen two and the other one is even stupider.Edited by Dr Adequate, : No reason given.Edited by Dr Adequate, : No reason given.

Now who is it that has the anger problem? Try to pay attention McFly. We are at the fine tuned distance where the temperature is just right for life on earth. Those margins are the end where you burn up or freeze. Fine tuned means in a comfortable range. Yes fine tuned indeeedah. This question along with your former remark shows you are lying through your teeth when you claim you were a practicing Christian.
You never new God. God rejects arrogance and you are the epitome of arrogance. We come to God on His terms and I would bet money you insisted he come to you on your terms. That's why you never heard from him.
He didn't start in 1983, I did! There you go with your arrogance again. I know more of the truth than you do. You and yours know more about the lie of evolution. That is a title your more than welcome to.I'm not angry at all, much less so angry. And finally Frog, I am not threatening you. The Word Of God is warning you through me. Who are you to tell me what I have or not you arrogant smart ass?Edited by ICDESIGN, : No reason given.

And given the vast number of stars in the universe, there must be zillions of planets the right distance from their suns; and of course we happen to live on one of those planets. No fine-tuning whatsoever is required.Edited by Dr Adequate, : No reason given.

ROTFLMAO No. Life is finely tuned to thrive in the environment that exists at this distance from the sun.Edited by subbie, : Add a bit of substance.

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Ridicule is the only weapon which can be used against unintelligible propositions. Ideas must be distinct before reason can act upon them; and no man ever had a distinct idea of the trinity. It is the mere Abracadabra of the mountebanks calling themselves the priests of Jesus. -- Thomas JeffersonFor we know that our patchwork heritage is a strength, not a weakness. We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and non-believers. -- Barack ObamaWe see monsters where science shows us windmills. -- PhatIt has always struck me as odd that fundies devote so much time and effort into trying to find a naturalistic explanation for their mythical flood, while looking for magical explanations for things that actually happened. -- Dr. Adequate

Sorry but that is simply nonsense. Do you have any idea of what conditions life even here on earth can endure?In addition, what makes you think life has to be like the one sample we know so far? Again, more nonsense.Evolution is a fact. Period. Not even open to question.Now the Theory of Evolution is constantly being challenged and as new information is discovered it ... evolves.However Intelligent Design is simply a waste of effort, pointless masturbation. Even if true, it tells us nothing of importance or relevance about how the life we see all around us came into being.And I am a Christian.And, as tens of thousands of Christian Clergy have said...

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Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

The "fuck" is for emphasis, not emotion. Except that you pretty plainly stated that we could orbit as much as 3 million miles closer or 35 million miles further our before we burned or froze.There's nothing finely-tuned about a range that wide. That's the exact opposite of what "fine tuning" means. Hint: the fine tune on your radio is the knob you use to dial in to an exact frequency, to within a certainty of usually one one-hundredth of a megahertz. The knob you use to just get in the ballpark is the coarse-tune. Always with you the name-calling.No, I wasn't lying. But, it's always amusing to have my mind read over the internet. Through a time-machine, even! Always with you the name-calling! Nonetheless, since God doesn't exist, you can't have a "relationship" with him. But, I can appreciate that you see it differently. Unlike you I'm not infuriated by the prospect of us disagreeing on something.

Hi crash, You tell me if this answers your question.A virus is a small infectious agent that can replicate only inside the living cells of organisms.
A prion, is an infectious agent composed primarily of protein.
Prokaryotes are either archaea or bacteria. I don't find where we know what the early Earth was like must less the conditions being known from geology and astrophysics.In fact CH4, NH3, and H2 is the mixture of gases Miller and Urey used in 1953 to mimic the conditions of the early earth.Today scientists beleive the atmosphere was full of oxidants, such as CO2 and N2There is some information about the early earth. But there is much more that is not known.Until the exact conditions of the early earth is known one guess is as good as any other guess.So I will ask you the same question I asked bluejay.This is what I was asking bluejay about found in Message 80. Do we have any reproducible verifiable evidence to support this hypothesis?God Bless,

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"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

It doesn't really get to the heart of it, no. Are prokaryotes alive? Are viruses alive? Are prions?What does the Bible say about prokaryotes and prions? Geology and astrophysics is the basis from which we can determine the conditions of the early Earth. If you want to know the conditions and the reasoning from which we conclude those conditions, why not start with this? And? You think, in over fifty years nobody's thought to expand the experiments in the light of our improving knowledge about the geochemical environment of the early Earth? Yes. Like I just told you, experiments - in the vein of, but not limited to, the Miller-Urey experiments - conducted under the conditions of the early Earth showed that natural processes can produce the complex chemical precursors to living things.

Hi crash, Can either survive without a living organism to host their existence?You did invite questions.God Bless,

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"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

Some viruses can survive for decades in between hosts. Prions are frequently incredibly durable, a few are suspected of being communicated through fully cooked hamburger.But are they alive? That's what I asked. Is there a reason you insist on evading direct questions?

As I've been trying to explain to you, the whole noursihment thing was going on long before the chemicals could be called life. Chemical reactions crave nourishment. Fire craves nourishment. And yes, as I have said, if the nourishment runs out, the chemicals "die", the fire dies. Fire doesn't "want to live". It's a pretty simple reaction, really, and it doesn't need any intelligence.So, once again, those reactions, becoming more and more complex, continued for perhaps eons before the molecular structures developed the ability to replicate themselves. Despite your derision, they couldn't be said to be alive until they had all of the properties that we now think of as life. They were almost alive but not quite.The only way that your "sudden development" strawman makes any sense is if you assume a priori that life must have arisen suddenly.

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I rode off into the sunset, went all the way around the world and now I\'m back where I started.

Hi crash, That God created them after their own kind. Why should I believe what Hugh R. Rollinson has to say about the early earth? He was not there, and I doubt very seriously he has talked to anyone who was. Sure I did.But you didn't as you said: All that experiment proved was that the conditions they tested could not produce life.All the other experiments have proved the same thing.I gave you information that scientist today disagree with the assumptions used as they believe they was incorrect.Nobody was there to record the conditions of the early Earth and the only way we can have any idea is guess at what we think they were.God Bless,

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"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

Well, no. The Bible says that God created living things after their own kind. Are prokaryotes alive? Are viruses? Are prions? If I had linked to you a book of Rollinson's opinions, you could dismiss them on whatever basis you chose. But that's not the text that I linked to you. It's not a work of opinion, it's a text on geochemistry. You should believe it for the same reason you should believe any legitimate science textbook - because it presents sourced, consensus science. But I did. The Miller-Urey vein. Not limited to the Miller-Urey experiment itself, which is 50 years out of date. That's not at all what was proved. The point of the experiment was never to create life. None of those experiments are done towards the goal of producing life.Why do you insist on moving the goalposts? The Earth was there to record the conditions, and its from the geochemical record of the Earth that those conditions can be determined.

Hi crash, I can find where they can lie dormant for short periods of time without a host. But they can not do their job without a host.But I find no mention of them surviving for decades. They are not classified as alive.
They are not classified as dead.Without a live host they can do nothing.God Bless,

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"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

Viruses don't have jobs. You're right! Why, it's kind of ambiguous, isn't it? Almost like they have qualities of living beings and qualities of nonliving matter, at the same time!How weird, huh?