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Member (Idle past 4828 days) Posts: 360 From: Phoenix Arizona USA Joined: |
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Author | Topic: When does design become intelligent? (AS OF 8/2/10 - CLOSING COMMENTS ONLY) | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Dr Adequate Member (Idle past 315 days) Posts: 16113 Joined: |
Grammar is for sissies, or those who lack imagination. Which is yous? I was going to suggest that you save your false dichotomies for when you really need them; but then I remembered that creationists have an infinite supply.
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Bolder-dash Member (Idle past 3661 days) Posts: 983 From: China Joined: |
Let's go with sissy then?
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ICANT Member Posts: 6769 From: SSC Joined: Member Rating: 1.7 |
Hi anglagard,
anglagard writes: Are jar and I the same person to you? No. Sorry about addressing the post to jar instead of you. The sand man was getting in my eyes. God Bless, "John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."
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ICdesign Member (Idle past 4828 days) Posts: 360 From: Phoenix Arizona USA Joined: |
ICANT writes: Actually, anglagard, it was ICDESIGN
That's nice, you and yours are fine and to hell with everyone else. All I said is that I am happy with how my skeletal system is doing the job it was designed for. 56 years and it still performs as intended.If I happen to open a franchise of 'The Fred Astare school of Tap Dance' I'll be sure and give you a free membership. In the mean time, I will be waiting to see if anyone can answer my questions from post 231. Edited by ICDESIGN, : had the wrong post reference
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Huntard Member (Idle past 2326 days) Posts: 2870 From: Limburg, The Netherlands Joined: |
Bolder-dash writes:
No. And the last part of this sentence makes little sense to me, I'm not entirely sure what you're trying to say.
So are you saying that an unsupported rib cage is BETTER than a supported ones for humans are not?
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ICdesign Member (Idle past 4828 days) Posts: 360 From: Phoenix Arizona USA Joined: |
How did the skeletal system end up being constructed with such intended purpose? Why would natural selection/ random mutation choose to build the skull with the perfect size and shape to house the brain? What about the eye sockets? Which came first, the skull or the brain and the eyes? Why are their joints and why are they located in the perfect positions needed for body movement? The skeletal system is what you would expect to find as a result of intelligent planning and design. Natural selection and random mutations cannot account for this kind of design with purpose. ......anyone?
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Huntard Member (Idle past 2326 days) Posts: 2870 From: Limburg, The Netherlands Joined: |
ICDESIGN writes:
It didn't. There was no intended purpose, there was what worked.
How did the skeletal system end up being constructed with such intended purpose? Why would natural selection/ random mutation choose to build the skull with the perfect size and shape to house the brain?
Because it's beneficial to have a skull that can house your brain.
What about the eye sockets? Which came first, the skull or the brain and the eyes?
They developed alongside eachother.
Why are their joints and why are they located in the perfect positions needed for body movement?
Because it's advantageous having them where they are of actual use.
The skeletal system is what you would expect to find as a result of intelligent planning and design.
Not really no. It is what you expect to find if evolution was the cause, however.
Natural selection and random mutations cannot account for this kind of design with purpose.
Well, since there was no purpose, that would mean natural selection and random mutation could have come with it. And wadda you know! It did!
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bluescat48 Member (Idle past 4220 days) Posts: 2347 From: United States Joined: |
How did the skeletal system end up being constructed with such intended purpose? The point is that it was not constructed for any purpose. It was not constructed at all.
Why would natural selection/ random mutation choose to build the skull with the perfect size and shape to house the brain? Try the fact that the brain fits do to its evolution. It fits the skull because the skull is at its size. Evolution is not directional, what works stays what doesn't , doesn't. that is Natural selection and what survival of the fittest actually means, best genes not the strongest individual. Edited by bluescat48, : typo There is no better love between 2 people than mutual respect for each other WT Young, 2002 Who gave anyone the authority to call me an authority on anything. WT Young, 1969 Since Evolution is only ~90% correct it should be thrown out and replaced by Creation which has even a lower % of correctness. W T Young, 2008
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ringo Member (Idle past 443 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Bolder-dash writes:
Thought is an electrical process as much as (or more so than) a chemical process. Chemistry can alter the electrical processes of the brain but it doesn't "produce" thought. What is the shape of a thought molecule? You need to let go of your romantic "ideas" about "thought" and really 'think" about it. Edited by Ringo, : Fixed quote. Edited by Ringo, : Fixed quote again. Life is like a Hot Wheels car. Sometimes it goes behind the couch and you can\'t find it.
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ICdesign Member (Idle past 4828 days) Posts: 360 From: Phoenix Arizona USA Joined: |
None of your answers hold up to the common sense test.
It didn't. There was no intended purpose, there was what worked. First of all how did "it" know anything was working without being able to think about it. Everything within the skeletal system has a purpose.To say it doesn't is is being completely out of touch with reality. Because it's beneficial to have a skull that can house your brain. What knew it was beneficial and how did it know?
Because it's advantageous having them where they are of actual use. What knew they were of actual use in those positions and how did it know?
Not really no. It is what you expect to find if evolution was the cause, however. No it isn't! I would expect a non-thinking dumb source like evolution to come up with a dumb design that makes no sense.
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Huntard Member (Idle past 2326 days) Posts: 2870 From: Limburg, The Netherlands Joined: |
ICDESIGN writes:
So? I've common sense to be exceptionally bad at determining truth.
None of your answers hold up to the common sense test. First of all how did "it" know anything was working without being able to think about it.
"It" didn't. There is no "thinking about it. If it helps your survival it stays, if it hinders your survival, it will not be propagated.
Everything within the skeletal system has a purpose.
But not an intended one.
To say it doesn't is is being completely out of touch with reality.
Which is why I never said that.
What knew it was beneficial and how did it know?
Nothing. The pressures from outside determined what was beneficial and what wasn't.
What knew they were of actual use in those positions and how did it know?
Again, nothing. Evolution is not a conscious process.
No it isn't! I would expect a non-thinking dumb source like evolution to come up with a dumb design that makes no sense.
See, that's what I mean with comon sense being exceptionally bad in these cases. Tell me, is this a bad design (thank you Subbie):
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onifre Member (Idle past 2982 days) Posts: 4854 From: Dark Side of the Moon Joined: |
I believe the universe has always existed in some form but not nesecerally as we see it today Thats' cool...
I believe that man was on earth billions maybe even trillions of years ago. That's insane, illogical, and unsupported nonsense. The fact that you even say this shows that you are not interested in what empirical evidence tells us about our human evolution. Why anyone here would waste a second of their time trying to help you understand, while you insist on making ridiculous claims, baffles me.
The universe began to exist the way it began to exist. And no one on this planet has any clue how this happened, they are still far from knowing that. Why do you insist on applying your limited/barely any knowledge on the subject to questions that even the most experienced of physicist couldn't answer?
I personally believe the account God gave of how He designed and created the universe. In your own words: "It makes no difference what we believe..." - Oni
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jar Member (Idle past 425 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined:
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ICDESIGN writes: None of your answers hold up to the common sense test.
Huntard writes: It didn't. There was no intended purpose, there was what worked. First of all how did "it" know anything was working without being able to think about it. Everything within the skeletal system has a purpose.To say it doesn't is is being completely out of touch with reality. It did not know it worked. The critter simply lived long enough to reproduce. That is all it takes.
ICDESIGN writes: Huntard writes: Because it's beneficial to have a skull that can house your brain. What knew it was beneficial and how did it know? Nothing knew it was beneficial. If the skull was not large enough to hold the brain the critter died.
ICDESIGN writes: Huntard writes: Not really no. It is what you expect to find if evolution was the cause, however. No it isn't! I would expect a non-thinking dumb source like evolution to come up with a dumb design that makes no sense. Evolution does not "come up with a design". If something works just good enough that the critter lives long enough to reproduce then it is successful. Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
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Blue Jay Member (Idle past 2728 days) Posts: 2843 From: You couldn't pronounce it with your mouthparts Joined: |
Hi, ICANT.
ICANT writes: Bluejay writes: So, do you believe that I can produce two identical DNA molecules, one of which has a certain quantity of information, and the other of which has no information? This has to be a trick question but I will bite anyway. The answer is NO. Any two identical DNA molecules would have to have the exact same quanity of information that matched perfectly or else they would not be identical. Well, no, it wasn’t intended as a trick question. I guess, from a certain point of view, you may still think it is when this post is done. But, it was asked to clarify what you meant my the information being separate from the structure (which you now seem to deny). So, we are in agreement that the information in a molecule is indistinguishable from the structure of the molecule? So, if an intelligent designer was involved in putting information into a DNA molecule, then this must mean that the designer was actually putting together the structure DNA molecules, right? Now, I ask, why does one molecule look, to you, like it had information put into it, when another doesn’t? -Bluejay (a.k.a. Mantis, Thylacosmilus) Darwin loves you.
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Blue Jay Member (Idle past 2728 days) Posts: 2843 From: You couldn't pronounce it with your mouthparts Joined: |
Hi, ICDESIGN.
ICDESIGN writes: How did the skeletal system end up being constructed with such intended purpose? This begs the question of what you consider "intended purpose." I say that the unintended products of many rounds of culling may very well look just like they had some "intended purpose" to them. Would you expect an organism with a bad skeleton to survive very long?Would you expect the genes responsible for giving organisms bad skeletons to continue very long in a population? If you would not expect these two things, then what would you expect the surviving organisms to have for a skeleton? Good skeletons? Fascinating. -----
ICDESIGN writes: Why are their joints and why are they located in the perfect positions needed for body movement? What do you think is the perfect position for any given joint? Let’s go with the knee, just to keep it simple.What is the perfect position for the knee? -----
ICDESIGN writes: Natural selection and random mutations cannot account for this kind of design with purpose. So, the basic idea is that, if it works, it must have been designed? I don't think you have successfully demonstrated this to be the case. -Bluejay (a.k.a. Mantis, Thylacosmilus) Darwin loves you.
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