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Author | Topic: Parables 101 | |||||||||||||||||||||||
ringo Member (Idle past 441 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
iano writes: Calling upon someones name is not the same thing as saying unto them face to face. That's not the topic, but if you look at what I actually said in Message 94, maybe we can discuss it in the appropriate venue. Edit: speling Edited by Ringo, : No reason given. Help scientific research in your spare time. No cost. No obligation. Join the World Community Grid with Team EvC
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ringo Member (Idle past 441 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
jaywill writes: The parable simply confirms that by making friends with our fellow man, we are doing the work of God. So what does that have to do with praying in the closet? As I said in Message 94:
quote: We demonstrate our love for God by demonstrating our love for our fellow man - not by loud cries of "Lord! Lord!" in church (or on Internet forums). In the parable, the steward didn't go to his master and beg for his job back, offer to take a cut in pay, etc. He went and made friends with his master's debtors, to get into their good graces, to get a job from them. And his master was happy with that. So, God doesn't want us to go to Him crying "Lord! Lord!", begging for forgiveness, offering to do favours for Him, etc. He wants us to make friends with each other, take care of each other. The point of the parable seems to be: Don't make a lot of noise about loving God - show that you love God by doing unto others.
quote: Show your love openly and God will reward you openly. Help scientific research in your spare time. No cost. No obligation. Join the World Community Grid with Team EvC
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ringo Member (Idle past 441 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
jaywill writes: This could be your twisting of the teaching to avoid acknowledging that Jesus is the Lord. We acknowledge that Jesus is Lord by doing His will - i.e. by doing unto others as we would have them do unto us - not by empty mouthing of words.
Where does Jesus teach that we are not to call Him Lord Lord? quote: He said that the empty words will get you nowhere. Empty words have nothing to do with acknowledging Him as Lord.
I'd be surprise if you could point to ONE of the hundreds of posts where you unambiguosly acknowledge Christ as THE LORD, the Lord of you. Exactly my point: the empty words "Lord! Lord! plastered on the Internet are worthless.
How about telling the Lord that we love Him? How about showing Him instead?
Again, your contempt for believers in the Lord Jesus is showing. I'm glad that my contempt for professing "believers" is showing. Jesus showed His contempt for them too. True believers show their beliefs by actions, not by empty words.
quote: Fruit trees don't say "Lord! Lord!" -------------
The prudent believers will be received into eternal habitations by those who shared the benefit of their prudence. This will be fulfilled in the coming kingdom age (Compare 14:13-14 with Matthew 10:42). It would be easier for the other readers if you would quote the passages rather than just citing them:
quote: quote: We will be rewarded according to our actions, not according to our words. That is why the master said that his servant acted wisely in making friends. That is what The Master wants us to do. Edited by Ringo, : Coordinated "beleivers" with "beliefs". Help scientific research in your spare time. No cost. No obligation. Join the World Community Grid with Team EvC
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ringo Member (Idle past 441 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Do you have anything to say about the topic?
Help scientific research in your spare time. No cost. No obligation. Join the World Community Grid with Team EvC
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ringo Member (Idle past 441 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes: Thats socialism, which I avoid like the plague! I don't think the point of the parable is about the money at all - it's about the time. All of the workers got the same reward, regardless of when they were hired. Jesus said that's how the kingdom of heaven works: it doesn't matter how long you've been with the company. Everybody gets the same reward. I don't think He meant to say that's how employers should treat their workers. He was just giving a hypothetical illustration to make a point - that the rewarder determines the reward. On the other hand, if you're going to take the Bible literally, you'd better dust off your red flag. “Faith moves mountains, but only knowledge moves them to the right place” -- Joseph Goebbels ------------- Help scientific research in your spare time. No cost. No obligation. Join the World Community Grid with Team EvC
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ringo Member (Idle past 441 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes: You mean that I have to surrender even if the Boss pays all the slackers the same as He pays me? You never have to surrender. You can go work somewhere else. But the parable isn't about slackers. For all we know the ones hired early in the morning might have slacked the day away and done less work than those hired later. You don't get to decide who's "No True Worker". The Boss decides what He's willing to pay. You have no say in what He pays somebody else. “Faith moves mountains, but only knowledge moves them to the right place” -- Joseph Goebbels ------------- Help scientific research in your spare time. No cost. No obligation. Join the World Community Grid with Team EvC
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ringo Member (Idle past 441 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Highestevolvedwhiteguy writes: Do you think that God puts people in a jail for a time as this suggests or is this not literal? Sort of like a purgatory?
That misses the point of the parable. It's not an exact one-to-one parallel with the way God will judge us. It's an illustration of the principle:
quote: The implication is that forgiveness must be sincere - i.e. instead of singling out one group to forgive, you should forgive everybody who has wronged you. And don't use "forgiveness" as an excuse to take a jab at somebody you don't like. “Faith moves mountains, but only knowledge moves them to the right place” -- Joseph Goebbels ------------- Help scientific research in your spare time. No cost. No obligation. Join the World Community Grid with Team EvC
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ringo Member (Idle past 441 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Highestevolvedwhiteguy writes: All your posts border on condescension. That's because I never debate with the smart people.
Could this parable be construed to suggest a purgatory? I don't think parables should be stretched to be all things to all men. They usually have one simple lesson. No need to read more than that into them. “Faith moves mountains, but only knowledge moves them to the right place” -- Joseph Goebbels ------------- Help scientific research in your spare time. No cost. No obligation. Join the World Community Grid with Team EvC
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ringo Member (Idle past 441 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
pelican writes:
There doesn't always have to be one meaning that jumps out at you. Even if something does jump out at you, it doesn't hurt to look beyond the obvious. When god isn't substituted for the master, it changes the meaning. Actually, that's part of what I take from the talents parable. We should always be asking ourselves, "Did I do all that I can do with what was given to me?" Life is like a Hot Wheels car. Sometimes it goes behind the couch and you can't find it.
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ringo Member (Idle past 441 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
pelican writes:
Umm.... Do you mean why should we ask ourselves or why did I get that from the parable? I should think both are pretty obvious. Ringo writes:
Why? Actually, that's part of what I take from the talents parable. We should always be asking ourselves, "Did I do all that I can do with what was given to me?" Life is like a Hot Wheels car. Sometimes it goes behind the couch and you can't find it.
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ringo Member (Idle past 441 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
pelican writes:
So clarify your question. Obviously not to me but neither is what seems obvious to me, obvious to you. I think it's obvious that we should ask ourselves if we did the best that we could. If we don't examine our own performance, how can we know if there's room for improvement? And I think it's obvious that the servant didn't satisfy his boss, though he might have done so if he had bothered to examine his performance. So what was the "why" for? Life is like a Hot Wheels car. Sometimes it goes behind the couch and you can't find it.
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ringo Member (Idle past 441 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
pelican writes:
I was intending to come from the one-talented servant's perspective. He wanted to please his boss, to preserve his job. He thought he knew which aspect of his boss' character to emulate - the cautious side - but he turned out to be wrong. The boss wanted him to emulate his greedy side. I understand you are coming from the boss's perspective who sets the rules but aren't we all equal under god? I'm suggesting that examining your options is important. If you get it wrong once, don't get it wrong twice.
pelican writes:
I have my doubts too that the master and the profitable servants were examples to be followed. That's why I shy away from saying that the master "represents" God. That's why I mentioned a lesson which is a lesson even if it might not be the lesson. Is it a moral right to reap what you did not sow? This is probaly how the other two servants rendered a profit too. How could this master represent jesus' moral obligation or god's for that matter? Life is like a Hot Wheels car. Sometimes it goes behind the couch and you can't find it.
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ringo Member (Idle past 441 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
I answered that. I said that "WE should always be asking OURSELVES". YOU have to determine all that YOU can do whether anybody else cares or not. YOU have to decide whether YOU are satisfied with YOUR performance, whether your motivation is to keep your job or to feel good about yourself. Ringo writes:
*sigh* Yes, yes, I know. The only issue I have is WHO determines all I can or should do? We should always be asking ourselves, "Did I do all that I can do with what was given to me?" If you believe that Somebody is going to judge you some day, then YOU are the one who has to defend YOURSELF in front of that judge. It might be wise to have a better defence than, "Some say that trusting in Jesus is EVERYTHING and that doing the best that we can won't cut it." Life is like a Hot Wheels car. Sometimes it goes behind the couch and you can't find it.
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ringo Member (Idle past 441 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
It's not a parable. It's an actual event in the life of Jesus.
What does the parable imply? Phat writes:
What kind of pick-and-choose God do you believe in? Don't you think He would judge everybody on the same scale? Are we in fact *all* commanded to do likewise? Notice that the rich men put in "offerings" for God. ("I'm going to make him an offer he can't refuse.") Doesn't that sound like trying to buy your way into heaven? Also notice that the poor widow put in "more than all." She put in all of her worldly goods AND she put in her trust."I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing
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ringo Member (Idle past 441 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
Why would He have to? You wouldn't expect Him to say, "This is good and that is bad. Now take your pick." Isn't it a foregone conclusion that He would automatically expect you to do good?
But He did not then say "go and do likewise". Phat writes:
In that case, Jesus was contradicting Himself. He didn't tell the rich young ruler to sell half of what he had. He didn't commend the widow for giving one mite. He didn't kill Ananias and Sapphira for holding back half.
Zacchaeus negotiated the terms and Jesus approved. Only 1/2 was mentioned. Phat writes:
The early church didn't think that was clear. Clearly what was said to One rich young ruler did not apply to all rich people. Why would Jesus have one standard for one person and a different standard for somebody else? You have Him contradicting Himself all over the place.
Phat writes:
He didn't say that. He said IF he had defrauded anybody he would make restitution fourfold. And note Zacchaeus confidence that he had never knowingly defrauded anyone."I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing
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