When does design become intelligent? (AS OF 8/2/10 - CLOSING COMMENTS ONLY)

No, of course not.Who designs the programs that are produced by genetic programming? I still don't see your point. It's irrelevant to the question of whether an unintelligent process can produce a computer program. It can. That has nothing to do with what I wrote. Irrelevant to whether unintelligent processes produce information. What makes you think that the first life-form was DNA based?Interestingly, we can observe self-replicating computer programs arise from random code and then evolve to be better adapted for reproduction. No intelligent designer, of course, is required to intervene in this process.

Living critters are not on a computer.No intelligence required for living critters.

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Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

Let me get it straight.You said: Now, since it only proves you need it to simulate it, it also proves that evolutionary processes don't, by your own admission, need intelligence to operate.Thank you, did you really need so many posts to agree with us?

Hi Dr, According to Wikipedia Simulation is the imitation of some real thing, state of affairs, or process.I love to race Need For Speed and have been doing so since the first program came out.But in reality the game is not the real thing.It is simply what the team that wrote the program see as reality that they have programed into the race program.The same goes for any simulation it is what the writers think reality is. And program the progame as such.God Bless,

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"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

Exactly, and in the case of the antennae design program, they programmed it like it is in reality, an unguided process that uses no intelligence whatsoever.

Hi Dr, The program that was written by intelligent people. Are you saying computer programs are written by people who have no intelligence?The computer would do nothing without the programs that run on them. Without a bios NO.
Without a operating systen NO.
Without a program to perform a specific task NO.Without an intelligent designer NONE of those things would exist.You could add all the electricity you wanted to but without a bios, operating system and program you would get NOTHING.God Bless,

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"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

And so in the case of genetic programming the computer scientists only know that they are simulating a natural process because biologists have proved that mutations exist in nature.Even if they had not, a genetic algorithm would still be an unintelligent process which produces results which have the appearance of design without anyone actually designing the results. But of course biologists have proved that mutations occur in nature, a fact that I presume you will not deny.Edited by Dr Adequate, : No reason given.

Hi jar, If it is possible for information to begin to exist through errors and substitution filtered by natural selection that information could only come about by modification of existing information.My question is how did the DNA information of how to build the first life form begin to exist. All the information to build a life form is contained in its DNA.Which came first the life form containing the DNA information?ORThe DNA information that produced the first life form?God Bless,

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"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

If you must draw a line between the first lifeform and its predicessor, then the DNA for that first lifeform would have been slightly different from the DNA contained in the thing that came before the first lifeform, thus the DNA would have came first.Although, the first true lifeforms probably came before true DNA, but that is beside the point.Edited by Catholic Scientist, : No reason given.

You obviously don't have the wit to understand the difference between the intelligence designing the program and the program running from that point on without any further input from intelligence.I shall not waste any more of my time on you.

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Ridicule is the only weapon which can be used against unintelligible propositions. Ideas must be distinct before reason can act upon them; and no man ever had a distinct idea of the trinity. It is the mere Abracadabra of the mountebanks calling themselves the priests of Jesus. -- Thomas JeffersonFor we know that our patchwork heritage is a strength, not a weakness. We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and non-believers. -- Barack ObamaWe see monsters where science shows us windmills. -- PhatIt has always struck me as odd that fundies devote so much time and effort into trying to find a naturalistic explanation for their mythical flood, while looking for magical explanations for things that actually happened. -- Dr. Adequate

And? The first life form likely did not use DNA.And whatever was used by the first life form was built by just plain chemical reactions. Neither. Simple chemical reactions came before either of those.

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Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

Exactly. Intelligence can only simulate natural processes. Even if we found evidence of an Intelligence that designed all life on earth, it would only mean that He figured out how to imitate the natural processes.Edited by Ringo, : Fixed quote.

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Life is like a Hot Wheels car. Sometimes it goes behind the couch and you can't find it.

Hi Dr, The program that was written by some intelligent person created the Genetic program.A computer can not think.A computer program can not think.I have a program that can play poker and it is very good. It can decide when to fold, call, raise and bluff. It accomplishes that by processing information that is included in the program. Is the program perfect no. Is it better than a human yes. It is a great teaching tool to play against.Can this program think? NO.
Can this program make decisions? Yes. Is that process produced by a running program?
OR
Does it begin to exist without a program running? Where could I find this random code that could evolve into a program?Is it included in a program designed and written by some intelligent being?Is there someplace I could use this random code?I have a random mutation generator on my computer and I can spend hours mutating "The quick black fox jumped over the lazy dog" and never get any sentence you can read that makes sense. Using the 44 characters in that sentence there are about as many combinations as there are particles in the entire universe. I can take those characters and create many different words that can be formed into different sentences but a little intelligence is required.God Bless,

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"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

Hi jar, Do human reproduction depend on information contained in the human DNA?God Bless,

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"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

Hi Huntard, Proving that intelligence is needed to simulate any kind of process does not prove the real thing needs it or not that is a different subject all together.So no I have not agreed with you.God Bless,

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"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."