When does design become intelligent? (AS OF 8/2/10 - CLOSING COMMENTS ONLY)

Hi Dr, My mechanism for the origin of the universe.In the beginning God created the Heaven and the Earth.Science mechanism for the origin of the universe."We don't know"If there is non-existence how can existence begin to exist.If you can wrap your head around that you will come to the conclusion it is impossible.The problem is the universe is here.Since the universe is here it had to begin to exist.ORIt has always existed in some form.Science tells us it could not have always existed as it would be dead and we would not exist.The BBT is put forth to explain what happened after the universe began to exist.Since the universe can not begin to exist from non-existence there are those who are putting forth the idea that it began to exist because of a contraction of a former universe.The problem with that is something called a singularity. Which is a place where the math ceases to make sense.Therefore no information past that point is available or will ever be available as the temperature was 100,000,000,000 K. at singularity or shortly thereafter according to science.So anything put forth will come out of the imagination of some man which there will be no empirical reproducable evidence for.It seems like both sides are in the same boat.Neither has any empirical reproducable evidence to present concerning the origin of the universe.One side does have a book that claims to contain the Words of one eye witness to the event.I have two choices.Either an intelligent designer created the universe and everything in it.ORThe universe began to exist out of non-existence with no cause, and I can accept the scientific evidence of "we don't know" and I can believe it is so because we are here.I think it takes less faith to believe that there is eternal existence we call God that created the Heaven and the Earth.Than to believe it just happened out of non-existence without a cause. Which science has no explanation for.I believe that intelligent existence being provided all the information I have been talking about in this thread even that we think we have created.I believe that intelligent existence being provided all the laws that we call natural laws.The alternative is to believe chaos is responsible for everything.God Bless,

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"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

Hi Dr, He has to create life first.God Bless,

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"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

Hi, ICANT. You’re looking at this all wrong, ICANT.The program only provides the rules by which things within the simulation behave.Basically, it represents the laws of nature.We are not trying to demonstrate that the laws of nature can evolve by mutation and natural selection.We are trying to demonstrate that the laws of nature allow living things within nature to evolve by mutation and natural selection.The program that created these antennae provided a set of rules that was based entirely on the two main components of the Theory of Evolution.Thus, for objects within the simulation, the only rules that govern their function are the two main components of the Theory of Evolution: (1) random mutation and (2) natural selection.The intelligence used to create the program is not translated into the simulation. Therefore, what happens in the simulation is due to the rules that the program was designed to enact.You can argue, if you want, that intelligence is required to design a program, and that therefore, the existence of laws in nature is evidence of an Intelligent Designer, but you would have to do so without the support of evidence, and you would only be arguing for a Deistic point of view, anyway.Since you are not a Deist, I don’t think this line of reasoning is what you intended to be arguing.

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-Bluejay (a.k.a. Mantis, Thylacosmilus)Darwin loves you.

Hi Ringo, The information that is transported to the ribsome from the DNA by the mRNA to create the protein.God Bless,

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"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

Hi jay, That is very possible.I do know that artifical intelligence does not exist yet.The computer can not think and neither can a computer program think.All a computer can do is compute.As I said in an earlier post I have a poker program that is better than most professional poker players.But the program does not think all it does is process information that is programed into it.It takes that information and the hole cards and those on the table and runs thousands of simulated hands for all players and then choose the most likely outcome. It is correct more times than it is wrong.A computer or a computer program can only follow instructions it does not create instructions without intelligent input.God Bless,Edited by ICANT, : correct selling

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"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This has been done. It just wasn't interesting to talk-show hosts.

That is not a model or mechanism.To be a model or mechanism you need to specify how God created heaven and earth and the mechanism must be testable.

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Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

That's not a mechanism. The creationist doctrine of ex nihilo creation may indeed be impossible. But I don't see how this is relevant. That depends on what you mean by "universe". However, in the face of this, one side insists that they know what happened. If I wanted to, I could write a book making similar claims, and then we'd be even --- I'd have as much worthless non-evidence as you do. Actually, there's a third choice, which is to believe neither the dogmas of creationists nor their strawmen. Again, you have a third option which involves not believing nonsense.Edited by Dr Adequate, : No reason given.

Good grief. No comment.

That's your belief, ICANT, you have described no mechanism. A mechanism would be how god created the universe. And it wouldn't be yours, it would just be how it was done because it would be testible, verifiable, empirical evidence. That's not a mechanism, that's a statement. Mechanisms would be String/M-theory, LQG, etc. All hypothetical at this point, and perhaps will always be that way, but at least one side has a proposed set of mechanisms. Something, in some sense, tangible to work with. You have been told, a shitload of times, by cavediver and son goku, that the Big Bang was the universe going from you state (form) to another state (form).The reason you fuck that up is because you like to add all sort of nonsense about eternity and god to that simple statement of theirs with your own beliefs. Wrong. The BBT explains the observations. That's what theories do. It's not a blind hypothesis, it has observable evidence to support it. There are observable phenomena that it explains. No you don't, you don't have any choices. The Bible tells you NOTHING about how the universe was created, it just says god did it. It says nothing about how god did it. You are still left with the need for a mechanism.The other realm, science, has said nothing absolute about the origin of the universe. So no chaice is needed.You are forcing yourself to pick a side between (A) your belief, and (B) your strawman. Pick either one, you created them both.- Oni

Explain how that is not mechanical. It's all molecules reacting with other molecules based on their particular structures. Show us the non-mechanical part.

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Life is like a Hot Wheels car. Sometimes it goes behind the couch and you can't find it.

Happy to. Here's a pretty good roundup of genetic algorithm programming, though it's not strictly state of the art: Genetic Algorithms and Evolutionary Computation

That's not a mechanism either. That's a statement.

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BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The immeasurable present eternally extends the infinite past and infinitely consumes the eternal future.

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wood to petrify. No design is required for a volcanoe to erupt. No intelligence is required for stalagmites to form in a cave

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What makes these complex processes Different then the complex processes in the human body?

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The unlikelihood of abiogenesis from non life developing would be grossly compounded from these thousand models.

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We have several working models for abiogenesis. With most of them it's highly likely it happened many many times.I'm sure these have been pointed out to you in the past. Edited by DC85, : No reason given.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Intelligence; no intelligence implicated in petrification of wood, etc. whereas DNA, genes, the human eye and childbirth all implicate intelligence.

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BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The immeasurable present eternally extends the infinite past and infinitely consumes the eternal future.