When does design become intelligent? (AS OF 8/2/10 - CLOSING COMMENTS ONLY)

Hi Biker, And how do we know that such can appear 'out of nowhere'?Can you even begin to imagine what and where nowhere is.Nowhere is non-existence.That means no vaccum for particles to pop into and out of existence in. That only happenes inside the universe in a vaccum.There was no space.There was no time.There was no energy.There was no matter.There was no universe.There was no thing to expand into the universe we have today.You have to make a lot of assumptions to get anything to begin to exist when there is non-existence.The existent intelligent designer is the only possible answer for the universe beginning to exist.Now if the universe has always existed we got a whole nother argument. OK I will take a peek. OK You lost me there.What Big Bang starts?What starts the Big Bang?From where did the spacetime framework come into existence from.There is non-existence. NO THING EXISTS. There is NO THING to expand there is non-existence. There is NO THING including any type of energy you started in non-existence with zero energy. In non-existence there would be no temperature as it would not exist. Neither would pressure exist.Me thinks you need to go back to the beginning.Your job if you choose to do it will be to get existence to begin to exist.Unless you decide existence already exists.Roger Penrose and others are trying to prove existence was already in existence and this universe came from a pre-existing universe.But then they will get into the same regression I am told creationist have with the Intelligent Designer.God Bless,

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"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

Hi DC85, They are the only ones I know of.If you have any other options I am all ears. God is all everything.He told Moses to tell the peole I AM sent me.That I AM is everything that has ever existed or will exist including all knowledge.God Bless,

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"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

Hi crash, Where did that sentence come from?Did your keyboard produce the information in that sentence?Did your computer produce the information in that sentence?Did that sentence require an intelligent mind to form the words and request made?If it did then you have evidence information needs a creator.On the other hand if your keyboard and computer composed the message and sent it to EvC without input from you of the thoughts in your mind by themselves I am wrong.God Bless,

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"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

Hi Ringo, You are correct as you were replying to a message to DC85. And adding your question under a quote of the two things I said I had asserted to him. I find no mention of hydrogen containing 'information' in the same way that DNA does.Why would it?DNA contains the genetic information that allows all modern living things to function, grow and reproduce.God Bless,

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"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

Hi Dr, If you ran the random mutation generator you know that sometimes there is more characters there and sometimes there are less characters there.But the real information disintergrates over a few mutations to where it means nothing. All the information is lost and you can run the random mutation generator for eternity and you will not get a sentence of information out of it.God Bless,

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"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

Hi Dr, A random number generator. But that is what computers are for.They have hard drives to store information just like DNA except they are far below the capacity of DNA.They have programs that have been programed to assist us with all kinds of things.I have an amazing program that I can draw simple houses with. It will also draw anything I can imagine as long as I can input the proper information.I have hundreds of programs and none of them can do anything by themselves without input programed into them.My $4,000 Chief Architect program can do a lot of things that are programed into it.I can draw a house and to put a roof on all I have to do is tell it what kind of roof I want then click in the middle of the drawing. The roof appears.I can put all the electric plugs in a room according to the southern building code by the click of a mouse button.All these things are programed into it by an intelligent designer. In fact a team of intelligent designers.But the program is useless unless I input information.So I get out of the computer exactly what is input into it. Nothing more and nothing less.Now that random mutation generator is something else. You can give it any information you want and it can destroy it in short order.But I can't get it to create any information. It is not an intelligent designer.God Bless,

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"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

Hi crash, Can I use this agrument when we argue about evolution.I am told because we can see some things evolve to a certain point that infers that evolution of all things took place from a single cell life form to present day life forms. So can I ask for and demand the evidence for the parts of evvolution that has never been observed in the so-called process of evolution.God Bless,

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"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

Hi crash, I have a 1T hard drive I think they have one now at 1.5T. It is 3" wide and 5" long and 3/4" thick. 1.5T = 1500 Gib. = 15,000 mgb.A human cell = 5 um = 1 nanogram.
1,000,000,000 nanograms = 1 gram, = 750,000,000,000 mgb. 750,000,000,000 megabytes = 750,000,000 Gb = 750,000 T.So we have 750,000 times the information stored in 1 gram of human DNA as can be stored in 1T hard drive. How much could you store in human DNA that had the weight or size of a 1T hard drive?The intelligent designer that designed the human DNA was a lot smarter than human designers are.God Bless,

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"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

Hi Dr, The point of computers is to assist humans and store information on media for future retrevial.I have never been able to get anything out of a computer that was not input by a key stroke, spoken words, or a computer program computing information.The only exception to that, that I have seen is when memory, hard disk, or processor malfunction. But when any of those occur the information is corrupt and not useable. You are correct.It is not a genetic algorithm that is written with the purpose of mimicing the process of natural evolution.It is a program written by an intelligent designer to mimic random mutation generation.There is no code in it to ignore any of the information produced. It just produces random mutations, which is exactly what would happen by natural random mutations.Sorry you don't like the results of random mutations.I am assuming you tried the random mutation generator.God Bless,

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"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

Hi Biker, Yes I did read it.I have a program on my computer and can play with it.I loved the way they talked about the program being coded to ignore certain information when producing the results. Isn't that controling the output?Don't get me wrong the one I have is a great program that was written by some very intelligent human beings. It can perform many functions and will examine and output information that it is coded to output.Now as far as your comment about my acknowledging some messages. It is impossible to answer all posts when you have as many posters pilling on as there are here against me. So I will choose who I will answer according to time restraints.God Bless,

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"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

Hi DC85, Please explain how that would be possible.God Bless,

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"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

Hi Huntard, The DNA in one human cell contains 750 megabytes of information. I am using crashfrogs number.One human cell weighs 1 nanogram.There are 1,000,000,000 nanograms in 1 gram.So 1 gram of human cells would contain 750,000,000,000 megabytes of stored information.That is how I reached my conclusion. If the math is wrong please correct me.That would mean the intelligent designer that designed the human DNA and cell is far more intelligent that humans are. Because we are far from the compression ratio employed in the human DNA.God Bess,

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"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

Hi Ringo, It seems tht DNA is found in living things. I can't find anyone who says hydrogen contains any information.Are you saying it does?God Bless,

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"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

Hi Huntard, Which is contained in every human cell except sperm and eggs.The human genome is 3,000,000,000 base pairs. Since there are two copies in each cell there is 6,000,000,000 base pairs contained in each cell.That would double the information that could be stored in 1 gram of human cells. If we were more intelligent we would be more capable. But the knowledge or capability is far from the reach of mankind today.The intelligent designer was far more intelligent.God Bless,

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"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

Hi Dr, It was created by an information engineer who is involved in Scientific Advertising. That creates the adds you see on Google in the right hand column. The ones that move up by themselves if they are clicked on by visitors. So he knows a little about information.It was not designed to fool anyone.It was designed to see if random mutations could create benifical information.As you can see random mutations can not do anything but cause information to be degraded and with enough mutations destroy it.In DNA we have information.We are told this DNA information has mutations.Because of the internal correction in DNA 1 mutation in 1 billion replacations gets through. That means that it would take some time to mess up or improve the information in human DNA.As the random mutation generator you tried proved that information can not be improved by random mutations.How do you propose that the DNA information could be improved
to change the product produced. Computers don't store information.They store information on some kind of media.The Central Processing Unit in a computer processies numeric data, meaning information entered in binary form, and the execution of instructions stored in memory.The CPU can make no decisions it only processes information.It does not create information only processes it and produces the results of that processing. A computer program does not compute information.A computer program provides information that is processed by a CPU that produces information according to the information entered. The CPU does not add or substract any information it only computes.The only intelligent designers involved is the ones who created the machine and its parts, and the programers who wrote the program. But my program I downloaded is programed that when specific results are produced in the random running program appears they are to be ignored and they do not compute, and are not displayed. Sounds like a program designed to reach a pre-determined outcome to me. So when a program produces results that you agree with it is producing what happens in the real world.When a program produces results that you disagree with it is not producing what happens in the real world.That sounds kind of bias to me. If you love random mutations why don't you accept the results?You do know selection only detrmines what survives don't you?God Bless,

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"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."