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Topic: how exactly does Israel stabilize the Middle East and why do we need Israel?
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jar
Member (Idle past 423 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
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Message 48 of 108 (572215)
08-04-2010 4:37 PM
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Reply to: Message 47 by Taq
08-04-2010 4:31 PM
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If it is a concern it is simply a matter of ignorance. Historically the Muslims have protected both Jewish and Christian sites in the Middle East as well as the pilgrims. Remember that those sites are also sacred in Islam.
Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 47 by Taq, posted 08-04-2010 4:31 PM | | Taq has not replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 54 by Buzsaw, posted 08-05-2010 9:41 AM | | jar has replied |
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jar
Member (Idle past 423 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
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Message 53 of 108 (572324)
08-05-2010 9:38 AM
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Reply to: Message 52 by Buzsaw
08-05-2010 9:14 AM
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Re: How Israel Stabilizes
So as usual all you can provide is falsehoods and innuendo.
some jewish source writes: 2 - Israel is a non-expansionist state and its neighbors know it. In its 62 year history, Israel has only controlled territory vital for its national security and territory that was legally allotted to it in the 1922 League of Nations Mandate which has never been abrogated or superseded. Simply not true and also irrelevant. Israel is an expansionist state and is even today building settlements on territory it took by force. Do you ever read what you quote?
quote:
Although they will never admit it, Israel's non-radical neighbors feel more secure when Israel is strong.
Talk about innuendo? Do you know what the 1922 League of Nations Mandate actually said?
Preamble to the 1922 League of Nations Mandate writes: Whereas the Principal Allied Powers have also agreed that the Mandatory should be responsible for putting into effect the declaration originally made on November 2nd, 1917, by the Government of His Britannic Majesty, and adopted by the said Powers, in favour of the establishment in Palestine of a national home for the Jewish people, it being clearly understood that nothing should be done which might prejudice the civil and religious rights of existing non-Jewish communities in Palestine, or the rights and political status enjoyed by Jews in any other country. Have you studied the documents I presented in the thread So let's look at why the Islamic world might be annoyed by the West? Do you understand that the 1922 League of Nations Mandate did NOT set aside any specific territory for a State of Israel, that NO territory was legally allotted to a State of Israel in that document?
Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 52 by Buzsaw, posted 08-05-2010 9:14 AM | | Buzsaw has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 55 by Buzsaw, posted 08-05-2010 9:57 AM | | jar has replied |
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jar
Member (Idle past 423 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
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Message 56 of 108 (572337)
08-05-2010 10:01 AM
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Reply to: Message 54 by Buzsaw
08-05-2010 9:41 AM
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Re: Islam Protects Judeo-Christian??
Of course. The Church of the Holy Sepulcher and the Wailing Wall, the Monastery at Petra, Beathany Beyond Jordan, Umm-al-Rasas, the Byzantine church at Petra...Shall I continue?. In addition, there is a long, long History of the Muslims protecting and guarding the pilgrims that visited the Middle east going back to Saladin. There have been Christian and Jewish sites preserved and even in active use throughout the Middle East, in Jordan, Palestine, Egypt, Syria, Lebanon...Shall I continue?
Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 54 by Buzsaw, posted 08-05-2010 9:41 AM | | Buzsaw has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 62 by Buzsaw, posted 08-05-2010 10:33 PM | | jar has replied |
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jar
Member (Idle past 423 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
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Message 57 of 108 (572339)
08-05-2010 10:08 AM
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Reply to: Message 55 by Buzsaw
08-05-2010 9:57 AM
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Re: How Israel Stabilizes
Buz writes: Note this, Jar. "In its 62 year history, Israel has only controlled territory vital for its national security and territory......." Thus, after Israel took the Sinai Pininsula in the 1967 Six Day War, it promptly handed back the entire Sinai Pinsula to Egypt. Why? Because it was not considered vital to the national security and territory of Israel. Bottom line: According to Biblical prophecy, Israel is only entiled by God to the land alloted to it by God. Note the underlined parts. They are mutually exclusive. One is based on some God myth, the other on political necessity. As expected, you seem to be basing your position on something that God might have said. You do understand though that historically, Israel did NOT have any rights to Jerusalem. Jerusalem was in Judah, not the historic Israel. Nor does it have anything to do with creating stability in the Middle East. How does Israel contribute to the stability of the Middle East? Why does the US need Israel?
Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 55 by Buzsaw, posted 08-05-2010 9:57 AM | | Buzsaw has not replied |
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jar
Member (Idle past 423 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
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Message 63 of 108 (572454)
08-05-2010 10:53 PM
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Reply to: Message 60 by Buzsaw
08-05-2010 10:29 PM
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Re: World End?
Buz writes: The planet and it's weather, terrain and atmosphere will be much like the pre-flood super climate where again humans will live much longer. Except as you have been shown, there was no "pre-flood super climate" since the Biblical Flood has been absolutely refuted. Claiming some Biblical Flood is simply posting falsehoods.
Buz writes: I know it all sounds undoable, but climate change, Mid East events, particularly the restoration of Israel the emergence of Islam and global government all attest to the veracity of the prophecies, both OT and NT. Islam emerged over 1400 years ago. You have offered no support for any emerging world government. You have not shown that the current State of Israel matches any Biblical Prophecy. You have not shown that today's climate change matches any Biblical Prophecy. So once again do you have anything other than unsupported assertions, falsehoods and innuendo.
Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 60 by Buzsaw, posted 08-05-2010 10:29 PM | | Buzsaw has not replied |
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jar
Member (Idle past 423 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
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Message 64 of 108 (572455)
08-05-2010 10:58 PM
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Reply to: Message 62 by Buzsaw
08-05-2010 10:33 PM
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Re: Islam Protects Judeo-Christian??
Yet you provide no support for your assertions where I provided specific evidence in support of my position. You do understand that the 1922 League of Nations mandate sets aside NO land for the jews don't you? You do understand that Jewish and Christian Middle East sites are also sites relevant to Islam since Judaism, Christianity and Islam all worship the same God and Patriarchs don't you?
Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 62 by Buzsaw, posted 08-05-2010 10:33 PM | | Buzsaw has seen this message but not replied |
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jar
Member (Idle past 423 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
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Message 69 of 108 (572527)
08-06-2010 10:21 AM
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Reply to: Message 67 by Buzsaw
08-06-2010 8:43 AM
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Re: World End?
Buz writes: Prepare yourself and hang onto your hat, Huntard. Make your peace with God by receiving his son, Jesus, messiah as saviour and lord/master. It's been escalating for the last century and will escalate more rapidly into fruition within, I say within, 50 years; more likely sooner than later! So you keep saying, but you never provide any support for your assertion that stands up to examination. If you want to make that claim, why not start a thread on it and see if it can be supported?
Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 67 by Buzsaw, posted 08-06-2010 8:43 AM | | Buzsaw has seen this message but not replied |
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jar
Member (Idle past 423 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
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Message 75 of 108 (572603)
08-06-2010 5:59 PM
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Reply to: Message 73 by Buzsaw
08-06-2010 5:36 PM
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Wailing Wall nonsense.
Buz writes: Most evangelicals were not predicting time frame. Aka, Buzsaw was predicting 70 years, give or take a few back in the 70s, based on Luke 21 when Jesus's prophecy of Gentiles being driven from Jerusalem, i.e. the 1967 Six Day War, when the Jews, for the first time after 19 plus centuries, marched into the old walled city of Jerusalem and celebrated at the Wailing Wall. Yet another false statement. I assume you can provide support that Jews were not allowed to pray at the Wailing Wall for 19+ centuries or is this just another of your unsupported assertions? Do you ignore the Firmans issued regarding the wall, like the 1560 one by Suleiman the Magnificent that recognized the Jews rights of access and to pray at the wall, or the decree by Abdul Hamid II in 1889 reaffirming "That there shall be no interference with the Jews' places of devotional visits and of pilgrimage, that are situated in the localities which are dependent on the Chief Rabbinate, nor with the practice of their ritual." Are you ignoring all the years of the mandate when beginning in 1917 under Allenby the policy was "that every sacred building, monument, holy spot, shrine, traditional site, endowment, pious bequest, or customary place of prayer of whatsoever form of the three religions will be maintained and protected according to the existing customs and beliefs of those to whose faith they are sacred"? Edited by jar, : fix sub-title Edited by jar, : appalin spallin
Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 73 by Buzsaw, posted 08-06-2010 5:36 PM | | Buzsaw has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 76 by Buzsaw, posted 08-06-2010 8:08 PM | | jar has replied |
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jar
Member (Idle past 423 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
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Message 77 of 108 (572620)
08-06-2010 8:21 PM
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Reply to: Message 76 by Buzsaw
08-06-2010 8:08 PM
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Re: Wailing Wall.
Did you say "Most evangelicals were not predicting time frame. Aka, Buzsaw was predicting 70 years, give or take a few back in the 70s, based on Luke 21 when Jesus's prophecy of Gentiles being driven from Jerusalem, i.e. the 1967 Six Day War, when the Jews, for the first time after 19 plus centuries, marched into the old walled city of Jerusalem and celebrated at the Wailing Wall."? You do understand that for almost all of the last 2000+ years the Jews have had access to both Jerusalem and to the Wall? You do understand that the 1967 WAR was a war of aggression by Israel? How does Israel add stabilkity to the Middle East? Why do we need Israel?
Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 76 by Buzsaw, posted 08-06-2010 8:08 PM | | Buzsaw has replied |
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jar
Member (Idle past 423 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
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Message 79 of 108 (572623)
08-06-2010 8:25 PM
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Reply to: Message 78 by Buzsaw
08-06-2010 8:22 PM
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Re: Violence vs Non-violence
But again, you have not provided any support for your assertions. And how does that relate to Israel adding stability to the Middle East?
Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 78 by Buzsaw, posted 08-06-2010 8:22 PM | | Buzsaw has not replied |
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jar
Member (Idle past 423 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
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Message 82 of 108 (572643)
08-06-2010 9:28 PM
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Reply to: Message 81 by Coyote
08-06-2010 9:25 PM
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Kill them all?
Both irrelevant and a false dichotomy. No one here is suggesting they should all be slaughtered. The question is, why is Israel needed? Edited by jar, : fix sub-title
Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 81 by Coyote, posted 08-06-2010 9:25 PM | | Coyote has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 83 by Coyote, posted 08-06-2010 9:57 PM | | jar has replied |
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jar
Member (Idle past 423 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
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Message 84 of 108 (572650)
08-06-2010 10:05 PM
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Reply to: Message 83 by Coyote
08-06-2010 9:57 PM
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Re: Kill them all?
I so far do not even see where there is a problem. The question is "Why do we need Israel"? If your answer is to house the Jews living there now, it still does not explain why a Nation State is needed.
Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 83 by Coyote, posted 08-06-2010 9:57 PM | | Coyote has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 85 by Coyote, posted 08-06-2010 10:20 PM | | jar has replied |
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jar
Member (Idle past 423 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
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Message 86 of 108 (572653)
08-06-2010 10:23 PM
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Reply to: Message 85 by Coyote
08-06-2010 10:20 PM
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Re: Kill them all?
I imagine you can show where I suggested a Concentration Camp or that their enemies should be in charge?
Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 85 by Coyote, posted 08-06-2010 10:20 PM | | Coyote has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 87 by Coyote, posted 08-06-2010 11:19 PM | | jar has replied |
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jar
Member (Idle past 423 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
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Message 88 of 108 (572662)
08-06-2010 11:23 PM
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Reply to: Message 87 by Coyote
08-06-2010 11:19 PM
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Re: Kill them all?
Please show where I have said that I don't want the Jews to have their own Nation? The question is, "Why do we need Israel"? If your answer is so that we don't have Jews living next door to us, then fine. Say that. If your answer is that the Jews are somehow a special pleading, then fine. Say that. But teh question is "Why do we need Israel"?
Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 87 by Coyote, posted 08-06-2010 11:19 PM | | Coyote has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 89 by Coyote, posted 08-06-2010 11:32 PM | | jar has replied | | | Message 107 by Phat, posted 10-13-2023 9:10 AM | | jar has not replied |
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jar
Member (Idle past 423 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
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Message 95 of 108 (572705)
08-07-2010 9:00 AM
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Reply to: Message 89 by Coyote
08-06-2010 11:32 PM
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Re: Kill them all?
coyote writes: So let me ask you this: why do you want the Jews thrown under the bus once again? I assume you can show where I said I wanted to throw the Jews under the bus once again? You keep repeating your mantra but you never explain why you think it is relevant or valid. Why do we need Israel? How does the existence of Israel stop Jews from being persecuted?
Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 89 by Coyote, posted 08-06-2010 11:32 PM | | Coyote has not replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 97 by Buzsaw, posted 08-07-2010 9:12 AM | | jar has replied |
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