how exactly does Israel stabilize the Middle East and why do we need Israel?

Well if you were the US and you needed a strong position in the Middle East, with nuclear capability, wouldn't that piece of property that Israel sits on look great?They're a menacing threat to any Middle East nation because of their US backing and armament.- Oni

Men with big guns own it. That property, plus Iraq and Afghanistan make for a great military strong hold, or at least presence, in the Middle E. IMO, because it is recognized as a nation versus just an offshore ballistic sub, which is also in that area too. It has been so far, sans Palestine.- Oni

I can't disagree there. But nuclear weapons in Israel do pose a menacing threat and would raise a question of whether to fuck with Israel because of it.I didn't say it wasn't a false or illusional stability, but that's what their after, really...- Oni

If you mean stability for the people of the Middle East, no. But I wasn't refering to that type of stability.I meant stability in the eyes of the US. Israel, and our influence military/weapon armament, provides us with a sense of stability for that area. Worse for us would be not having any strong hold in there at all. We would consider that un-stable territory. In the same way as Blackwater helps us. We can shift blame to someone else who isn't held to the same standards and isn't as influencial as the US. If Blackwater opens fire on suspected terrorist and injures civilians it's not as bad (for PR purposes) as if our troops do it.Likewise Israel can and has done the same for us as Blackwater.- Oni

But in this case, it would be the same as saying black people tango'd with police during the civil rights movement. It took two to tango in their case too, but you can see how one side didn't really want to dance.Israel (and the parties that aided) occupied land that they had no rights to. That is a very strong case for resisting on the part of the Palestinians don't you think? So everything that has occured since that day (occupation) is in regards to the initial invasion/occupation by force.- Oni

Just to clear any misunderstandings, do you mean how it stabilizes the Middle East in the eyes of Middle Easterners or in the eyes of the US?Because I am totally opposed to Israel as a country and to their occupation, however, as a former military guy I can see how having that much armament in Israel stabilizes the Middle East in our PoV.I won't post further till we hear from Buz and the others that you'd like to participate.- Oni

Buz, you can't say NWR is wrong about you guys believing a fantasy, and then go on to describe said fantasy... To think, your god has 95 billion light years of space, galaxies, solar systems, planets, black holes, etc. to look after, and you claim he's worried about 946.1/sq mi of dirt on a single planet... - Oni

Or, it sounds like humans made up a story about lakes of fire and this planet being where god's adversaries will be cast down to because they didn't know or realize the magnitude that is the entire, observable universe. Do you know who El Indio Hatuey was? He was a cheif from Hispaniola who fought the Spaniards.He had this to say:

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(Pointing to gold and jewels) Here is the God the Spaniards worship. For these they fight and kill; for these they persecute us and that is why we have to throw them into the sea... They tell us, these tyrants, that they adore a God of peace and equality, and yet they usurp our land and make us their slaves. They speak to us of an immortal soul and of their eternal rewards and punishments, and yet they rob our belongings, seduce our women, violate our daughters. Incapable of matching us in valor, these cowards cover themselves with iron that our weapons cannot break...

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Before he was burned alive, a priest asked him if he would accept Jesus and go to heaven. The cheif replied:

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...thinking a little (Hatuey) asked the religious man if Christians went to heaven. The religious man answered yes... The chief then said without further thought that he did not want to go there, but to hell, so as not to be where they were and where he would not see such cruel people.

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This is my same response to you about accepting Jesus and Heaven... First, I didn't say "only 95 billion light years," and second, 95 billion is all we know of, that we have evidence for, and speculating about the rest frankly does me no worth.- OniEdited by onifre, : No reason given.Edited by onifre, : No reason given.

I think some nutjob hacked into your account and is posting ridiculous comments on your behalf, Coyote. So your particular religion awards you the pick of any real estate on the planet you wish? No, no, certainly not any piece of property. For the actual location, we turn to the OT and try to decipher where in fact those chosen people (and thank god they were the chosen ones, if not, fuck 'em, right?) get to set up camp...forever. What can be more reasonable and fair than that?And if you dare question, why a jewish state? Well, the answer is quite simple... God promised it to them...in the book that they wrote. Forgive him, Caesar — he is a barbarian and considers that the customs of his tribe are the laws of nature. The same one the rest of us live in under. Why should that religion get any special treatment or consideration?If we care so much about persecution of a religion, and mass slaughter, the why hasn't anyone from the US or the UN done anything about Tibet? Why? cause fuck 'em, that's why...What can Tibet do for the US? Nothing.What kind of stratigic or military advancement can Tibet give the US? None.And yet we care about the jews for some reason? Bullshit. We need them and that piece of property... and that's the only reason the US helped establish that nation. I think some nutjob hacked into your account and is posting ridiculous comments on your behalf, Coyote.- Oni

I'll let them know, but really, they need the support and military aid from nations capable of doing that. But, for political reasons, they will get none.Why did the jews get special treatment?Was it religious persecution that awarded them that land, or was it a political and stratigic move on the part of the US and UN? Many, like you, also root for the underdog. Note that I don't hate Israelis, or jews, I have an issue with the political aspect of the forced occupation of that land. I feel it was dishonest to point to the Torah as a legitimate case for the jews receiving that land. The US wanted a military strong hold in the Middle East, that was the reason for Israel. But we're supposed to swallow some nonsense about that land being the land that god promised them?I would expect someone like yourself to agree that such a case, based on scriptural text, is bogus?- Oni