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Author | Topic: The Flood = many coincidences | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
petrophysics1 Inactive Member |
Percy,
Not that I don't appreciate your research/looking up GPS things in this area, but you could always search "seismic lines across plate boundaries" There are actual raw data seismic lines across the Jaun De Fuca plate, some very good 3D seismic looking at the Pacific plate going under Japan, and some across the mid-Altantic Ridge. The internet is not the best place to get geologic data unless you belong to one of the professional organizations. I'll bet Architect-426 has never looked at this or even knows about it. Hell, from what I can tell reading this thread, he doesn't even basically understand ASTM soil descritpions. Not the first person I'd chose to build something for me. No problem if you want to know what color to paint your kitchen, but if you actually want to build something I'd call a Civil Engineer.
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Danielcp Junior Member (Idle past 4872 days) Posts: 1 Joined: |
I am brand new to this sight and as such may post something that has been discussed already, but I have something that amazes me about the flood.
I have traveled into the western U.S. on several occasions. When I was at the Grand Canyon (AZ, national park), I took note of the very clear explanations of its watery past, as presented in the visitor center. Also, when I was once driving through the desert of western TX, I stopped at a national park, and they also mentioned that particular parks watery past (Guadalupe park). Now these are only two of many places like this, places that had watery pasts, with a fossil record proving it. After those visits, a thought came to mind. "If I took a world map, and put a simple pin in every place that has a fossil record denoting a watery past, would I be able to cover the earth with pins on my map?" ...need to put that on the "to do" list. Anyway, we debate the validity of a biblical flood. We, or you, or somebody, argues that it didn't happen. But, there is so much evidence that clearly shows that the world was flooded...how can one argue that there was not a world wide flood? Clearly sea life fossils in desert places around the world point to a flood. Those fossils certainly didn't visit the desert in a car at some point in the past.
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jar Member (Idle past 424 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
Welcome home. But the Biblical flood simply never happened.
Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
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bluescat48 Member (Idle past 4220 days) Posts: 2347 From: United States Joined: |
There are at least 2 reasons for the fossils found in deserts & on mountains, climate change & plate tectonics.
At several times in the ancient past, the world climate was much warmer, with no ice cap. The sea level was several hundred meters higher than it is now, Much of the eastern & central North American was under water. When the climate cooled forming the ice caps the water receded leaving the bottom silt, containing dead organisms, in place. Plate tectonics, the plates colliding built up mountains carrying the remains of life with it. The point is this occurred millions of years ago and not all at once. There is no better love between 2 people than mutual respect for each other WT Young, 2002 Who gave anyone the authority to call me an authority on anything. WT Young, 1969 Since Evolution is only ~90% correct it should be thrown out and replaced by Creation which has even a lower % of correctness. W T Young, 2008
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lyx2no Member (Idle past 4747 days) Posts: 1277 From: A vast, undifferentiated plane. Joined: |
You're ignoring time. If you put a pin in a plan of my garden on every spot where I've stood would you feel free to believe that my alyssum and coreopsis languish in perpetual shadow?
When cometh the day We lowly ones Through quiet reflection And great dedication Master the art of karate Lo, we shall rise up And then we'll make The bugger's eyes water Roger Waters
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Panda Member (Idle past 3743 days) Posts: 2688 From: UK Joined: |
As lyx2no pointed out, you have forgotten to include 'time' in your conclusions.
Although you may be correct that every place has been underwater - you have not applied a time-scale. Every place has been probably been underwater at some point in time. The continents of the earth have not always been the same size, shape or position.Over millions of years the earth's surface changed - some land was slowly raised and some land was slowly lowered. If land is raised above 'sea level' it becomes dry land and the reverse is true: if land is lowered below 'sea level' it fills with water.But if land is raised above 'sea level' then it also raises up all the stuff that was underwater (e.g. fossils, rocks, etc.). (This is a simplistic explanation - but it will do for now.) I hope this helps.
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Dr Adequate Member (Idle past 315 days) Posts: 16113 Joined: |
When I was at the Grand Canyon (AZ, national park), I took note of the very clear explanations of its watery past, as presented in the visitor center. Did you nod off when they told you about the Coconino Sandstone and the Hermit Shale?
After those visits, a thought came to mind. "If I took a world map, and put a simple pin in every place that has a fossil record denoting a watery past, would I be able to cover the earth with pins on my map?" ...need to put that on the "to do" list. Now do it again with deposits that are terrestrial. Heck, do it with deposits that are glacial.
Anyway, we debate the validity of a biblical flood. We, or you, or somebody, argues that it didn't happen. But, there is so much evidence that clearly shows that the world was flooded... Uh, no. There's evidence showing that at various times bits of the world were wet, something that no-one disputes. If there was evidence showing that "the world was flooded", geologists would have noticed, especially as that's what they started off looking for.
Clearly sea life fossils in desert places around the world point to a flood. Those fossils certainly didn't visit the desert in a car at some point in the past. No, and the desert fossils found in temperate places around the world didn't take the train. Environments change.
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edge Member (Idle past 1736 days) Posts: 4696 From: Colorado, USA Joined:
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quote:Not sure where you are getting your information, but a fissure eruption does not refer necessarily to style of eruption, but the morphology and structural control of the vent(s). quote:Why not? Here is a presentation showing how a fissure eruption occurs at a divergent plate boundary. Just a moment...
quote:Yes and that conduit has some relationship to the regional stress field which is concordant with the known tectonic environment. quote:Not sure what you mean here. Sounds like a strawman. Are you sure you understand regional crustal rock mechanics? quote:True. But what is really important is what happens as that carapace is stretched across the expanding crust. See the link above to see what happens as that supracrustal basalt is stretched in an approxiamate E-W direction. It is exactly what we would expect in an extenstional PT environment. quote:The first part of this statement actually makes sense. Yes, the actual extension is in the emplacement of basaltic dikes in the oceanic crust, of which the surface carapace of volcanism is a manifestation. The flood business is pure fantasy.
quote:Incredibly wrong. There is abundant evidence of spreading at the known divergent boundaries. quote:My, that's generous of you! So, how do you have compression in some areas with out extension in others? quote:Ummm, no. First of all, why is the idea 'childish'? In fact, if you look up Large Igneous Provinces, you will find tha the Icelandic province, with which you seem to be familiar, is spread all across the North Atlantic from Scotland to Greenland. This is due to spreading which you seem to reject based on a cursory understanding.
quote:Well, that continental volcanism includes your Icelandic Province. If you have a better explanation, this would be a fine time to apprise us all. quote:And you have some alternative? You are simply making unsupported assertions here. There is abundant evidence against what you write here. From actual measurements of divergence, to radiometric ages, to structural analysis and correlation of rock types, you are shown to be embarrassingly wrong.
quote:Wonderful. Another non-scientist telling us the motivation for doing science. Basically, an unsupported and wishful assertion. quote:Again, no support. Just assertions. For instance Pangea was only one of such ancient 'supercontinents'. So are you telling me that we really need TWO supercontinents for evolution to be valid? This is silly. Why couldn't we just make up a story where the continents just bounced off each other but never coalescing? Could it be that this is where the evidence leads us? Or are you saying that we make up stories because that is what you do?
quote:Nonsense. If that's all the reason for PT, then we could just as easily make up some kind of 'steady state' non-tectonic theory. quote:Hey, if you've got some evidence, I'm ready to look at it. But you don't, do you?
quote:It seems you have an axe to grind. Why not provide us with some evidence? I'm going to snip the rest of your post. Partly because it seems mostly like a rant with some personal anecdotes; but also because I doubt you will even read this post.
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Architect-426 Member (Idle past 4653 days) Posts: 76 From: NC, USA Joined: |
Hi Percy,
Key word from your post - velocity. Since the (nil) velocity of "plates" truly cannot even be defined as velocity per se, much less translated into energy to "build" anything, then indeed plate tectonics is false in terms of creating geological features. Thus my entire argument regarding vertical tectonics and volcanism vs. "plate" tectonics, or the idea that land masses move with enough horizontal speed and "crash" into another landmass. This alleged plate tectonic notion is sheer nonsense as shperical mechanics and displacement completely negate this "lateral" type of motion, and is only supported by colorful diagrams to "explain" how this supposedly happens. Yet the fact remains; no velocity = no energy = no "plate" tectonic construction.
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Coyote Member (Idle past 2136 days) Posts: 6117 Joined: |
You seem to be trying to force reality to fit within your religious beliefs. Problem is, it doesn't fit. Your religious beliefs are flatly contradicted by reality.
The earth is old, giving the small annual movement of the plates plenty of time to do all sorts of things. You may not like it, but that's the way it is. Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.
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Architect-426 Member (Idle past 4653 days) Posts: 76 From: NC, USA Joined: |
Edge,
As I have already explained to Dr. A, the hands down deal-killer of the PT idea of alleged sea-floor "spreading" lies in the formation of the MOR's. In other words, these massive features in no manner were created by a mm/yr "sprading" of the ocean crust, especially in a "slow" manner (In fact, major geological features could never have been formed in a slow PT manner due to lack of energy). However, if the MOR formation can be better explained via the compression scenario due to axial loading, and can be modeled as such, then sea-floor "spreading" is indeed false. Do I have proof of this? Yes, and it can be demonstrated. For example, in construction we design expansion joints in slabs, walls etc. because we know that under certain conditions the concrete (or brick, cmu, etc) will expand. When this expansion occurs, the slab will buckle while also forming cracks (fissures) perpendicular to the load (a result from axial loading). This true observation can be applied to the MOR formation resulting from massive global movements literally compressing the ocean lithosphere into those impressive formations. Therefore, yes indeed I have a plausible alternative to the PT "spreading" concept. And one that is observed, can be tested and repeated and it makes sense. (In your post you asserted that I'm a "non-scientist", yet architecture embraces all of the sciences. Not to mention that God is The Architect of everything which is confirmed in the Scriptures. He asks Job a rhetorical question; "Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? Declare if thou hast understanding". )
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Architect-426 Member (Idle past 4653 days) Posts: 76 From: NC, USA Joined: |
See above post. Administer pls delete this post. Thanks
Edited by Architect-426, : post submitted twice, thus deleted
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anglagard Member (Idle past 867 days) Posts: 2339 From: Socorro, New Mexico USA Joined: |
Architect-426 writes: See above post. Administer pls delete this post. Thanks Why not delete it yourself by using the edit button? If you want to be honest, replace with the phrase "deleted by poster." {Content hidden. Message should never have been posted - Adminnemooseus} Edited by Adminnemooseus, : Content hidden, add message.
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Dr Adequate Member (Idle past 315 days) Posts: 16113 Joined: |
Key word from your post - velocity. Since the (nil) velocity of "plates" truly cannot even be defined as velocity per se, much less translated into energy to "build" anything, then indeed plate tectonics is false in terms of creating geological features. Thus my entire argument regarding vertical tectonics and volcanism vs. "plate" tectonics, or the idea that land masses move with enough horizontal speed and "crash" into another landmass. This alleged plate tectonic notion is sheer nonsense as shperical mechanics and displacement completely negate this "lateral" type of motion, and is only supported by colorful diagrams to "explain" how this supposedly happens. Yet the fact remains; no velocity = no energy = no "plate" tectonic construction. As pointed out to you (for example in post #267) the velocity is not "nil". We know this because the displacement is not nil. Displacement over time can indeed be "defined as velocity per se". And mass in motion possesses kinetic energy. You fail.
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Dr Adequate Member (Idle past 315 days) Posts: 16113 Joined:
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As I have already explained to Dr. A, the hands down deal-killer of the PT idea of alleged sea-floor "spreading" lies in the formation of the MOR's. In other words, these massive features in no manner were created by a mm/yr "sprading" of the ocean crust, especially in a "slow" manner (In fact, major geological features could never have been formed in a slow PT manner due to lack of energy). You know how I explained to you that assertion is not argument? Let's try a little logic here. The energy sufficient to move plates by 2 cm per year is sufficient energy to move plates by 2 cm per year. Do you deny this?
However, if the MOR formation can be better explained via the compression scenario due to axial loading, and can be modeled as such, then sea-floor "spreading" is indeed false. Do I have proof of this? Yes, and it can be demonstrated. And yet when I asked you for a demonstration, you stopped posting for three months. Did you hope we'd forgotten? Let's ask again. Can you show me any instance where the results of compression mimic the structure and behavior of a mid-ocean rift and ridge?
In your post you asserted that I'm a "non-scientist", yet architecture embraces all of the sciences. And yet it's always (for example) people who have studied medicine who walk away with the Nobel Prizes in medicine, and never those know-it-all architects. I wonder why that is? Edited by Dr Adequate, : No reason given.
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