Amlodhi,
I have a few questions and comments regarding your recent posts.
I. In regards to the differences between
almah and
bethulah, you stated:
As to almah vs. betulah, though I have seen it argued both ways, I think that in the end it becomes irrelevant...It would strain credulity beyond all limits to think that Isaiah's audience heard, "A woman is going to have a child while still a virgo intactus!"
Could you please explain how this idea would "strain credulity beyond all limits"?
II. In regards to the "one land" mentioned in these verses, you stated:
This ignores the fact that Syria and Ephraim had formed a confederacy.
The formation of a confederacy does not in any way require the dissolvement of two nations into one. America and Britain have entered into many confederacies throughout history, yet the two remain completely independent nations. Thus the confederacy between Ephraim and Syria does not necessitate that they were the one land mentioned in this passage.
III. You also made an absolute statement about the house of David.
The house of David would never abhor Judea.
This is a very interesting statement. Are you saying that it would be impossible for a nation to be abhorred by its king?
IV. You had much to say about the time in which you think the child must have been born.
Since Tiglath-Pileser III overthrew Syria in 732 b.c., Isaiah's prediction to Ahaz must have taken place some time before this dateThe context of Isaiah chapter 7 makes it effortlessly clear that the child of vs. 14 would be living at the time of the Assyrian invasion of Judea.
The only direct indication given in the passage for the time of the child’s birth is the statement that he will not know how to choose good over evil until after the loss of two unnamed kings. The Bible does not tell us how long after this loss the child will gain his discernment. It merely states that the child will know to choose between good and evil sometime after the land has lost both kings. Now, it would be highly irregular for a child to know how to choose good over evil before he is even conceived. Therefore a child born 700 years future to this prophecy would definitely meet the qualification of not discerning good from evil until after the land was forsaken of both her kings.
V. You also mentioned a possible correlation between verses 15 and 22 as evidence for your position
The fact that both of these verses are included here and juxtaposed with each other makes the sense crystal clear. After Judea is overrun by Assyria, the land is desolated and the people are reduced to the nomadic diet of butter and wild honey.
You are correct in pointing out this correlation. Verse 15 gives us an unusual diet for this child, and verse 22 tells us the origin of this diet. In verse 22 we are told that everyone left in the land will be reduced to a diet of butter and wild honey, and verse 15 also tells us that the child will eat butter and honey. However, the context does not give any indication that the incidents of these two verses occur simultaneously. It only indicates that the diet of the child will be the same as that of those left in the land. The purpose of the diet is given in verse 15 as teaching to know to refuse the evil, and to choose the good. This diet is imposed on the people of the land in verse 22 precisely because they had chosen evil instead of good; they were reduced to nomadic conditions as a result of their decision. Chapter 8 outlines the choice of good that this condition will teach them, and chapter 9:1-8 presents the result of choosing good.
In chapter 9, we also find another passage concerning a child.
For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace. Of the increase of his government and peace there shall be no end, upon the throne of David, and upon his kingdom, to order it, and to establish it with judgment and with justice from henceforth even for ever. The zeal of the LORD of hosts will perform this.
It has already been pointed out that the context of Isaiah 7:14 extends from chapter 7 through chapter 9. The grammatical structure of this context is such that verses 1-13 of chapter 7 are presented as a background and introduction to this passage. Verses 14-16 then present the main prophecy, and verse 17 of 7 through verse 22 of chapter 8 provides an explanation of the events leading up to the fulfillment of this prophecy. Chapter 9 then tells of the culmination of these events at the completion of the prophecy itself in verses 1-8. The final verses of chapter 9 conclude this passage with an application of the prophecy to the current situation of Israel and Judah. Thus the child whose birth is prophesied in chapter 7 is the same child whose life is described in chapter 9.
In chapter 7, we are told that the child would be born of a virgin (
almah), that he would be called Immanuel (God with us), and that he would eat a diet of butter and honey. In chapter 9, we find that he will rule from the throne of David forever; that he will bring peace, judgment, and justice; and that he will be given names applying only to one who is God: The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace. Such a child could only be the Christ.
In fact, in reading through the book of Isaiah, one can compare the child of chapters 7-9 to the rod out of the stem of Jesse in Isaiah 11:1-5, the corner stone laid in Zion in Isaiah 28:16, my servant in Isaiah 42:1-7, the salvation placed in Zion in Isaiah 46:13, my servant called from the womb in Isaiah 49:1-7, his servant who gave his back to the smiters in Isaiah 50:4-10, my servant who bore the sins of many in Isaiah 52:13-53:12, the Redeemer that shall come to Zion in Isaiah 59:20, the light which is come in Isaiah 60:1-3 (compare with 9:2), thy salvation cometh in Isaiah 62:11-12, and the seed brought forth out of Jacob in Isaiah 65:9. That all these prophecies refer to a single individual is easily seen in the constant repetition among them of his characteristics. The only single individual that I know of to whom each of these prophecies has been attributed is Jesus Christ.
His virgin birth is declared in Matthew 1:18-25 and Luke 1:26-35
He is claimed to be the rod out of Jesse in Luke 3:32, Acts 13:22-23, Romans 15:8-12, Revelation 5:5, and Revelation 22:16
He is named as the corner stone in Acts 4:10-11, Ephesians 2:20, and I Peter 2:5-6
He is said to be the servant of Isaiah 42:1-7 in Matthew 12:15-20 and Philippians 2:7
He is the salvation placed in Zion in Titus 2:11-14
He is proclaimed as the servant called from the womb in Matthew 1:20-21 and Luke 1:23
He gave his back to the smiters in Matthew 27:26-30, Mark 14:65 and 15:15, Luke 22:63-65, and John 19:1-3
He bore the sins of many in Colossians 1:14, I Timothy 2:5-6, Titus 2:14, and Hebrews 9:28
He is the redeemer that came to Zion in Romans 11:26
He is the light which is come in Matthew 4:16, Luke 1:79, Luke 2:32, John 1:9, John 3:19, John 8:12, and Ephesians 5:14
He is the salvation that came in Luke 2:30
And He is declared to be the seed brought out Jacob in Luke 1:32-33 and Luke 3:34
To the best of my knowledge, no other single individual has been attributed with having fulfilled all of these prophecies in himself.
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