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Author Topic:   Support for Louisiana repeal effort
Taq
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Posts: 10085
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 5.6


Message 72 of 108 (615478)
05-13-2011 12:08 PM
Reply to: Message 63 by marc9000
05-12-2011 9:27 PM


There is a controversy regarding evolution among the general public, and the general public is who the schools are for.
I agree. The citizens of Louisiana should be able to decide how their taxes are spent with relation to public schooling and what is taught in those public schools, as long as what is taught does not violate the Constitutional rights of the students. To be quite frank, I do not view removal of evolution from the science curriculum to be a violation of a student's Constitutional rights. Teaching creationism would be a violation, but that is a separate topic.
I really do not think that the fervor, at a fundamental level, over removing evolution has to do with Constitutional rights. It has to do with superstition replacing reason. Over the last five hundred to a thousand years we have slowly progressed down a path leading away from superstition towards reason. This new law in Louisiana is a backwards step on this path. Rejecting scientific conclusions based solely on our emotional responses runs counter to the progress that our species has made over the last several centuries.
Science can seamlessly transcend into philosophy (worldviews), and if common ancestor evolution is the only game in town in science classrooms, then there’s nothing that keeps Genesis is wrong from being the topic of the day in science classrooms, and parents have a right to object to it.
I really doubt that you can find "Genesis is wrong" in any science textbook, nor does any science teacher push that. There are still a few biblically based geocentrists around, so do we not allow heliocentrism to be taught because geocentrism says that the bible is wrong? How far do we take it?
It is not science teachers that are teaching "evolution disproves the bible". It is creationists that are teaching this.
An anti-evolution law doesn’t only have to be about promoting religion, it can also be about lessening the promotion of the religion of atheism, which also violates the constitution.
Teaching evolution does not promote atheism. There are millions of theists who accept the theory. Atheism is not promoted in science class, no matter how much you try to pretend that it is.
It’s always interesting how religion/ID must be kept completely out of science classrooms, because, we’re told, it will lead to all sorts of cheapening of science, of establishment of religion, etc, yet if someone claims that studies of only evolution will lead to atheism, the slippery slope fallacy bell is clanged.
If creationists would stop teaching children that christianity is false if evolution is true then there wouldn't be a problem.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 63 by marc9000, posted 05-12-2011 9:27 PM marc9000 has not replied

Replies to this message:
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Taq
Member
Posts: 10085
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 5.6


Message 83 of 108 (615776)
05-16-2011 5:43 PM
Reply to: Message 77 by marc9000
05-15-2011 2:37 PM


This is from the website of the first organization that was mentioned in the link in this thread’s opening message. Federal investment in research and education , and a listing of government agencies such as the EPA being among the federal agencies that fund intramural.biological research always seem to be instrumental in all these various agencies that take sides in naturalism v religion political battles.
The EPA is looking to fund scientific research in order to determine how pollution effects ecosystems. ID/Creationists are looking to push religion into science class. Gee, I wonder why the EPA funds scientific research instead of foundations that are more interested in pushing a religious agenda?
ID/creationists are not getting money from the EPA because they are not interested in doing science. In fact, ID/creationists are more interested in doing away with science. It is really that simple.
If a person is studying chemistry, he should have an interest in the origin of the elements, as well as the laws that govern chemical reactions.
You mean those naturalistic theories that push the atheistic dogma that chemicals combine through naturalistic means? Shouldn't we stop teaching this atheistic drivel until someone is allowed to teach that supernatural fairies glue atoms together? Where is the money funding these positions?
It is organized like religion, it has unchangeable beliefs like religion, and it seeks political benefits like religion can. It has every social danger that the founders feared that any religion would have.
Projection much?
I have seen herds of kittens that are more well organized than atheists. Also, atheism has no unchangeable beliefs. At it's foundation, atheism is a shared DISbelief. Atheism is defined as a LACK OF BELIEF.
From the Wikipedia description;
Keith's act required that scientific evidence for creation-science, the view of abrupt appearance of organisms in the fossil records, whenever related material on evolution was presented in classes. A panel of seven creation-scientists, appointed by the governor, would advise local school districts on the appropriate curriculum. The act did not specifically require or allow instruction in any religious doctrine.
Lightning appears abruptly. Do we also need to present Zeus science whenever naturalistic origins for lightning are discussed? Do we have to present a supernaturalistic explanation for every single natural phenomena? If not, why not?

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 Message 77 by marc9000, posted 05-15-2011 2:37 PM marc9000 has not replied

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 10085
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 5.6


Message 94 of 108 (615848)
05-17-2011 3:29 PM
Reply to: Message 84 by marc9000
05-16-2011 8:30 PM


So they can turn up the ~license, regulate, restrict, and prohibit~ agenda that delights atheists and liberals.
Red Herring. Please try to stay on the topic. You claim that funding scientists is funding atheism. Please explain.
Because the EPA wants to be God. If it's going to make commands to all the peasants about how to take care of IT'S Earth, it doesn't need the real God getting in its way.
Is this your argument? Really?
Let's get this back on track. You claim that the EPA is funneling money into pushing atheistic doctrines by funding scientific research. Please support this claim with something other than red herrings.
No, just aware of what's going on in today's society.
So atheists write books about atheism and that makes atheism an organized religion? C'mon marc, you can do better than this.
Edited by Taq, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 84 by marc9000, posted 05-16-2011 8:30 PM marc9000 has not replied

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 10085
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 5.6


Message 103 of 108 (616590)
05-23-2011 1:20 PM
Reply to: Message 100 by marc9000
05-22-2011 4:30 PM


I know it’s politically correct to claim that atheism isn’t involved in science.
Yes, just like atheism isn't involved in basketball. Need we remind you that there are hundreds of thousands of theistic scientists? Need we remind you of the thousands and thousands of theistic biologists who accept the theory of evolution?
Putting 2 and 2 together involves watching the scientific community add one fact, two theories, three hypothesis, four guesses, five atheist wishes, and finding the sum total to be a fact.
This is an example of the bullshit we keep talking about.
I was providing an emotional generalization of what I believe people see from their evolution/atheism indoctrinated children.
False conflation. Evolution is not atheism.
Why must ID be met with shouts of conspiracy theories, and hauled into federal court?
Why do ID supporters avoid scientific conferences and scientific journals? Why shouldn't we shout if ID is avoiding the scientific process while insisting on being taught in science class?
So when something is blatantly religious according to atheists, it all must be eliminated, yet when something is blatantly atheistic according to most students parents, it must be locally, slowly, dealt with by due process? Double standards.
Evolution is not atheistic.
But something in science is taught dogmatically. It’s called abiogenesis — naturalistic origins of life.
Where is it taught dogmatically? Cite or withdraw.
Edited by Taq, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 100 by marc9000, posted 05-22-2011 4:30 PM marc9000 has not replied

  
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