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Author | Topic: Jesus's Prophecy Of His Gospel | |||||||||||||||||||||||
Quiz Inactive Member |
Oh no, Quiz... don't start denoting quotes with color like Joralex Quote blocks are designed for quotes. It makes it confusing when different people choose their own methods to do quotes.
I know I know I know I know... heh, Just LIKE the way he does it..j/k. I dunno I am just trying different things out. -Quiz
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nator Member (Idle past 2200 days) Posts: 12961 From: Ann Arbor Joined: |
quote: Sure, I want you to answer. All I can do is mirror back to you the impression of yourself that you provide to me through your posts. So far, it seems to me that you believe the Bible first, then interpret away any difficulties in the prophecies. It does not seem to me that you took a look at the prophecies, did a bunch of research looking for both supportive evidence and evidence which would falsify the prophecy, then decided that the Bible must be true because the prophecies all survived this inquiry. Certainly you have said that the reason you have the faith you do is because of the fulfilled prophecies in the Bible, but have you really looked for disconfirming evidence? One can never be sure that one's own bias of wanting certain things to be true isn't interfering with a rational investigation of the facts. Therefore, actively looking for evidence that refutes what one wishes were true is a good thing to do when trying to find the truth about something.
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nator Member (Idle past 2200 days) Posts: 12961 From: Ann Arbor Joined: |
quote: Sorry, you weren't convincing, considering you had no substantive responses to any of the rebuttals to your claims thus far. I was hoping for something a bit more concrete and a LOT less vague.
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nator Member (Idle past 2200 days) Posts: 12961 From: Ann Arbor Joined: |
quote: So, what other scientifically supported concepts other than modern Biology and Genetics do you choose to discard based upon your religion?
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Quiz Inactive Member |
So, what other scientifically supported concepts other than modern Biology and Genetics do you choose to discard based upon your religion?
I disagree with evolution resulting from a succession of relatively small genetic variations that often cause the formation of new subspecies -Quiz
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crashfrog Member (Idle past 1498 days) Posts: 19762 From: Silver Spring, MD Joined: |
I disagree with evolution resulting from a succession of relatively small genetic variations that often cause the formation of new subspecies So, what would you say to these observed instances of new species arising through relatively small genetic variations?
Observed Instances of Speciation
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Quiz Inactive Member |
This looks like micro-evolution. This is possible; it is small geneitic alterations. I got them mixed up by accident. let me restate that answer. "I dont agree with evolution which "matter comes from non living-matter" I also dont agree with MACRO evolution. Thats what I ment. Sorry.
-Quiz
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AdminBrian Inactive Member |
TOPIC DRIFT
Can we keep this specifically to Jesus' prophecy of his gospel. There are already upteen threads discussing evolution. AdminBrian.
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nator Member (Idle past 2200 days) Posts: 12961 From: Ann Arbor Joined: |
quote: ...based upon what scientific evidence do you believe this?
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nator Member (Idle past 2200 days) Posts: 12961 From: Ann Arbor Joined: |
quote: Quiz, I will answer your post in a new topic which I will start in the "Evolution" forum. Please come see it there!
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PaulK Member Posts: 17828 Joined: Member Rating: 2.6 |
quote: The fact is that the LDS church is based not on true history but on a nineteenth centure fabrication falsely claimed to be a miraculous translation of an ancient document (The Book of Mormon) So basically you are claiming that you rejected science and history wihtout even the motivation of faith.
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Amlodhi Inactive Member |
Hello buzsaw,
quote: Your original post proclaimed amazing and incontrovertible prophecies "fulfilled to a 'T'". Yet, even you, in your first post, retreated to the phrase "practical purposes" regarding the "times of the Gentiles". It seems reasonably clear then that the "times of the Gentiles" were not fulfilled in 1967 and thus, the six-day war was not the fulfillment of Luke 21:24 as you originally proclaimed. Therefore, the most generous concession that can be made regarding this "prophecy" is that it remains to be seen whether or not it will be fulfilled. As to the "prophecy" that the gospel will be preached to the entire inhabited earth, it has already been pointed out that this is a self-dependent statement analogous to the anthropic principle (i.e., the prophecy remains extant if/and only if the religion survives). As to fulfillment of this prophecy, your own equivocation (i.e. "pretty much fulfilled") admits that this has not happened. Therefore, it not only remains to be seen whether or not this "prophecy" will be fulfilled, but more importantly, it also remains to be seen whether or not any of the attendant consequences occur if/and when the gospel ever is "preached to all the world". So, in contrast to your original proclamation of incontrovertible and amazing prophecies fulfilled to a "T", what we have actually been presented with so far are two rather ambiguous statements, neither of which can be demonstrated to have been "fulfilled". If then, there is such a plethora of astounding prophecy fulfillment on which you base your faith, why are you experiencing such difficulty in presenting one? Namaste' Amlodhi
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Buzsaw Inactive Member |
quote: 1. The false prophet often plagerizes prophecy from the Bible, with enough doctoring to make it sound original.2. Is the prophecy something that would require a supernatural fulfillment by being rendered unpredictable when given. 3. Does the prophet have a consistent record of fulfilled prophecy? 4. For Biblical prophets, does the prophecy contradict other scripture?
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Silent H Member (Idle past 5850 days) Posts: 7405 From: satellite of love Joined: |
buzsaw writes:
While this is certainly an okay criteria, I think it should be generalized to anyone making predictions based on points of common knowledge, or on popular predictions which are believed to be a reliable source. (We can disagree as to whether the Bible is actually a reliable source of prediction, but it is certainly popularly believed to be)
1. The false prophet often plagerizes prophecy from the Bible, with enough doctoring to make it sound original. buzsaw writes:
I think I agree with this as well... but I would like clarification first, maybe an example.
2. Is the prophecy something that would require a supernatural fulfillment by being rendered unpredictable when given. buzsaw writes:
This is also okay, but requires that the "fulfilled prophecies" fit the other criteria.
3. Does the prophet have a consistent record of fulfilled prophecy? buzsaw writes: 4. For Biblical prophets, does the prophecy contradict other scripture? I'm not exactly sure how this can be implemented. I do not want to reraise the "generation" problem here, but will point out that its possible contradiction was smoothed over by using the demands of other prophecy to force a new definition upon it, rather than to negate the prophecy itself. Now, I will present a couple of my own and ask why they are not important... 5) The inability of the target, or minions of the prophet, to make the prophecy come true. I think you'd agree with me if some corner soothsayer predicts mr X Y and Z will eat ice cream the next seven Saturdays, and they indeed do so, is NOT grounds for believing a prophecy has been fulfilled. 6) Coherence, constraint of prophetical vision. Anyone can predict the future of another person's life pretty easily, if allowed free reign with regards to symbolism and spacing of "markers." For example a soothsayer tells someone that they will first see a bird, then someone will spill something, then the person will fall ill. These are all events which will likely happen at some point. If the prophecy allows for coherent fluctuations (such as the bird may just be a picture of a bird), or no temporal constraint (these events are not within a very very short time period), the prophecy would essentially be meaningless. There may be others, but right now these two points have been mentioned, and I think they are value added constraints, particularly given your point #3. Without these, your #3 makes many dimestore oracles quite the wonder. ------------------holmes
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Buzsaw Inactive Member |
quote: Jesus's prophesies of several of the events in his Olivet Discourse were good examples such as the Gentiles occupying Jerusalem and then being booted in the end times coupled with his gospel will also be preached to all nations coupled with the budding of the fig tree, etc are a good example. Note that I said they should be unpredictable, not impossible.
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