Importance of Original Sin

Hi iano, Where did the man say the fruit was pleasing to the eye or good for food? Who told the man the fruit was desirable for gaining wisdom?The man had been told 1 thing about the fruit.God did tell the man, "for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die".So when the woman brought him the fruit and told him it was good he had a choice to make. He knew she was going to die because God had said so. He could chose not to eat the fruit and be alone or he could chose to eat the fruit and die with her.Remember his words where he said:

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2:23 And Adam said, This is now bone of my bones, and flesh of my flesh: she shall be called Woman, because she was taken out of Man.

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2:24 Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh.

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He said in this statement a man would give up everything for his wife and in action he did exactly that. He chose to die with her.God Bless,

Hi Straggler, God specifically told the man, "for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die".Sentence was declared and would be carried out upon disobedience by eating the fruit. The serpent did not say anything to the man. Why should I bear in mind that the man and woman were unable to distinguish right from wrong?The text says nothing about them not knowing right from wrong. Just like I should have known when my grandmother told me if I touched the red sides of the wood heater it would burn me.Grandma told me if I touched it that it would burn me.God told the man if he ate the fruit from the forbiden tree he would die.I did not have to know right from wrong to know the heater would burn me and neither did the man have to know right from wrong to know he would die if he disobeyed.God Bless,

Hi iano, The only thing that would be required of the man was to choose to wilfully disobey God.Just like a person that is given the opportunity to accept Christ and be saved who choses to reject that offer.God Bless,

Hi Straggler, Why does death have to be a "bad" thing?It was just a consequence of disobeying God.

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Genesis 3:1 Now the serpent was more subtil than any beast of the field which the LORD God had made. And he said unto the woman, Yea, hath God said, Ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden?

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3:2 And the woman said unto the serpent, We may eat of the fruit of the trees of the garden:

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3:3 But of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die.

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3:4 And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die:

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3:5 For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.

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Those verses contain all the conversation of the serpent in the garden. I could answer that question if I knew what the first man's definition of מוּת was. So you exercised your freewill and chose to stick your hand in the fire. Would that someone be forced to press that big red button?Or would they be exercising their freewill by choosing to press that big red button?No one made the man eat the fruit of the forbidden tree.He simply chose to eat the fruit for whatever reason he had. So humans have a nature to try things when they are told not to do them.Where do you think that nature came from?God Bless,

Hi Straggler, I am sorry you can not understand what I believe about Genesis, so let me state my position.There is 1 book of Genesis.There are two events recorded in the first 4 chapters of Genesis.There is the original creation events that took place in Genesis 1:1 with the history of that day recorded in Genesis 2:4-4:25.In this original creation of events the man was the first living life form. This man was formed from the dust of the ground. He was placed in a garden to keep it. There was no sea on this Earth, there was only a river that left the garden and then divided into 4 rivers to water the land. All animals and fowls was formed from the ground. Woman was cloned from a rib of the man. This man chose to disobey God's command not to eat the fruit of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. For that he was cast out of the garden from the presence of God. He had sons and daughters who built cities. This world came to an end in the same light period when the evening of day one God declared in Genesis 1:5. Genesis 2:4-4:25The condition of the Earth found in Genesis 1:2 is attested to by Peter in 2Peter 3:5 and Jeremiah 4:23-26.Then we have the condition of the earth described by Jeremiah of the Earth being uninhabitable by man with no birds, man and the cities all destroyed.Thus we find the condition of the Earth as described by Jeremiah and Moses in Genesis 1:2.God then repaired the condition of the Earth and made it inhabitable by mankind.The evening of the light period had come over the face of the Earth as it was covered in darkness.God declared the darkenss of that first light period as evening which was the evening of day one and the light of the following morning which ended the first dark period as day one. That means there was no day before that day, there had only been existence.We then have the second day, third day, fourth day, fifth day, sixth day, and the seventh day.During these periods of 24 hour days God called forth all creatures after their kind from the waters and ground. He also created whales in Genesis 1:21 and mankind in Genesis 1:27. These were the only things created in Genesis 1:2-2:3. Everything else was called forth after their kind as well as the seed that was in the ground was commanded to produce vegetation. The sun, moon, and stars were made visible from Earth as in Genesis 1:2 they were not visible from but they did exist as they are apart of the Heavens.Mankind which was created male and female (no specific number of males or females mentioned) on the sixth day were told to go forth and replenish the Earth. They were told they could eat the fruit from all trees and no tree was stated to be off limits. They were never placed in a garden and then kicked out of that garden.The first series of events took place in the beginning. If you care to define the beginning please do, I can't.The second series of events took place some 6,000 years ago.So no there is only one Genesis which means beginning.The second series of events was not a Genesis, it was a remodling job on a Earth that had undergone an extenction event.There were were many extenction events in Earth's past, but only one that I can find was recorded in the Bible for our benefit.God Bless,

Hi jar, Why don't cats, or dogs put their paws in a fire to see if it is hot or will burn them?God Bless,

Hi iano, No the question is did he obey God, or did he disobey God?The reason he chose to disobey God is irrelavant, he disobeyed a direct command.The same applies to all mankind today.In John chapter 3 mankind is told "ye must be born again", "that which is born of the spirit is spirit".Mankind is also told he is "condemned already because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten son of God".So if mankind is not "born again" by trusting in the only begotten Son of God he will remain "condemned".The reason for choosing to remain "condemned" is irrelavant.God Bless,

Hi Straggler, One of us can't read as I can not find the word apple in the book of Genesis much less in the first 4 chapters.The word apple appears in the Bible 8 times. Deu 32:10, Psa 17:8, Pro 7:2, Sgs 2:3, Sgs 8:5, Lam 2:18, Joe 1:12 and Zec 2:8.So no neither God or the serpent said anything about eating an apple. All the man had to know was that he was told not to eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.The woman came along after all things were created so she did not witness the things the man did, therefore she had an excuse to be deceived by the serpent.The problem was that the man chose for whatever reason to disobey God.Whether it was right or wrong is irrelevant. The information was included in the DNA. I have been pastoring for over 45 years and have had to deal with people all that time.In that time I have learned you can not make a person do anything that they do not choose to do.God Bless,

Hi Nuggin, Why does he need knowledge of good and evil?God told the man not to eat from a specific tree.

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Genesis 2:16 And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat:

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2:17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.

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God simply told the man not to eat from a specific tree because if he did he would die. No need to know what is right or wrong was needed.My first day at Ft Stewart my first sergent informed me there was three ways anything could be done.The right way, the wrong way, and the army way.He then said as long as you are in the army you will do things the army way.The man in the garden had only two ways to choose from.He could choose to do things his way.ORHe could choose to do things God's way.He chose to do things his way and because of that suffered the consequences.God Bless,

Hi Straggler, There is no term "original sin" in the Bible.If you want to define original as the first....And sin as disobedience to God's command....The "original disobedience" was when the man ate the fruit from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. The crux of the whole issue is did man obey God or disobey God.God commanded the man not to eat of a certain tree.Up until the time man disobeyed and ate the fruit from the tree God commanded him not to eat man had a perfect relationship with God.That relationship was severed when man disobeyed and ate from the forbidden tree.For that relationship to be restored between God and mankind a sacrifice had to pay for that disobedience.Since mankind could not pay the price for redemption as he had ceased to be perfect God provided the sacrifice to restore mankind to Himself.That sacrifice was God in the form of a man we call Jesus.Had that man not disobeyed God he would still be perfect and in the garden walking and talking with God and you and I would never have existed.Because of the sacrifice that was paid to redeem you and place you in a position the same as that first man had with God you don't have to know what is good and what is evil.All you have to do is believe God to be restored to the condition that first man was before he disobeyed God.But then you can choose to do things your way and not be restored to a perfect relationship with God.So don't blame God for your choices as you blame God for the first man's choices.God Bless,

Hi Nuggin, Jesus gave the physical life of His earthly perfect body on the cross to restore mankind to the right relationship the first man formed from the dust of the ground had with God in the garden before he disobeyed God and ate the fruit from the forbidden tree.Where does the text say the man was tricked into disobeying God?He did blame God for his disobedience.

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Genesis 3:12 And the man said, The woman whom thou gavest to be with me, she gave me of the tree, and I did eat.

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The man did not blame the serpent, and he did not blame the woman.He blamed God by insinuating that if God had not given him the woman he would not have eaten the fruit from the forbidden tree.God Bless,

Hi Straggler, Depending on what definition you want to use for sin.If we use the definition of the root word that sin comes from I would say yes. The original Hebrew word תטאת a feminine noun means 1) sin, sinful. This word is from the root word תטא which means 1) to sin, miss, miss the way, go wrong, incur guilt, forfeit.The problem is that תטאת is not used concerning the disobedience of the man in the garden. The first time usage is in Genesis 4:7. Please give your definition of sin and evil. You have not shown yet where the man had that choice.According to the man the woman gave him the fruit and he ate it.In no text does the serpent trick him or even try to convince him to eat the fruit.So his only choice was to obey God and not die or listen to his wife and eat the fruit and die. Well the man knew that God had formed the serpent from the ground and given him life and brought him to the man to name.So if the serpent had tried to trick the man he would have laughed at him and obeyed God who formed the serpent.So the man's choice was to either obey God and live or to listen to his wife and eat the fruit and die with her. Simple. He could obey God and live by himself because he believed God.ORHe could eat the fruit and die with his wife, as he knew she had eaten the fruit and would die.But this disobeying of God's command changed the relationship of mankind with God.The first man sold all mankind into slavery to the god of this world which is the devil.Paul's statement:

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Romans 5:12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:

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So that man forfeited a perfect relationship with God for all mankind.The solution to the problem.

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Romans 5:16 And not as it was by one that sinned, so is the gift: for the judgment was by one to condemnation, but the free gift is of many offences unto justification.

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Everyone can have a free gift to remove that condemnation through the sacrifice God gave upon Calvary's tree.All mankind can believe God and obey Him and be born again, and receive a free full pardon.ORMankind can reject the offer of God and do things his way and stay condemned.God Bless,

Hi Nuggin, I did not ask anything about the serpent talking to the woman.Where does the text say the man was tricked into disobeying God?It does not nor does the man claim he was deceived or tricked by the serpent.He blamed God for his disobedience. Where do you find that this serpent did not have the ability to talk?
As far as that goes how do you know that all animals at that time did not talk?

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Genesis 1:1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.

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Can you tell me when the beginning was?The serpent under discussion was formed from the ground in the same light period that the Heavens and the Earth was created. He had legs and could walk until God cursed him and told him he would crawl on his belly the rest of his life.BTW Science says snakes used to have legs.If the serpent could walk why couldn't he talk? No magic involved. You don't know anything about me then.I don't believe anything I am told, and very little of what I see.I am told to question everybody.

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1 John 4:1 Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.

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The man was commanded not to eat the fruit of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.He was told if he did he would die.The man chose to eat the fruit and suffer the consequences.The only thing involved was his disobeying a direct command.You will not find that God or Moses says that disobedience was a sin. You do not find that statement until Paul makes it in Romans. Where does the text say God sent a messenger that said "Okay, now you can eat"? As I have said several times the term "original sin" does not appear in the Bible.The relationship that was broken, (when the man disobeyed God), between mankind and God is what had to be restored.That broken relationship brought about the necesity of the sacrifice at Calvary to restore mankind to the same relationship the man in the garden enjoyed prior to his disobedience. Everyone who has been born again has been restored to a right relationship with God. When I was born again my spirit was made perfect and in a right relationship with God.My mind is being restored on a daily basis as I study the Word of God and correct things that I do that are wrong.My body will be restored at the resurrection when I receive a new body that will be in the same relationship to God that the man in the garden was. It will be perfect. The first man was formed from the dust of the ground.The dust of the ground was already an eternal existing substance so from the beginning of mankind he was an eternal being.I read somewhere you can not create or destroy energy or matter but they are interchangable. So everything has always existed in some form just not nesecerally in the form we observe it today. And that after death is JUDGMENT.

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9:27 And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:

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Paul gives the reason for your view.

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1 Corinthians 2:14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

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You can believe it is a bunch of bull if you want to, that is your choice to make.But be warned what you believe has no bearing on what God says.God told the man not to eat of a specific tree, and if he did he would die.Man disobeyed God and was separated from God by being kicked out of God's garden, and he did die as I can't find an address for him.Because that man disobeyed God all mankind are separated from God and required a sacrifice to restore that relationship man had before he disobeyed God.That sacrifice was providen in the form of a man we call Jesus which was God with us.Mankind today has one choice as did the man in the garden.Mankind can choose to accept the free gift from God or reject it.God Bless,

Hi Straggler, Is this your definition of sin?Would you be so kind as to point out in the story in the 3rd chapter of Genesis where it is said the man sinned when he ate the fruit from the forbidden tree?I am not asking what you believe but rather what the text says. Well no, mankind is punished because he will not trust God and receive the free gift offered by God.That is why is was necessary for God to come to Earth in the form of a man we call Jesus to offer Himself a sacrifice that mankind could be restored to a right relationship with God like the man in the garden had prior to his disobeying God.So yes if you choose not to receive that free gift you will suffer the consequences.If you were on a ship and fell overboard and was not able to save yourself and someone threw you a rope you would have the choice of taking hold of the rope or not taking hold of the rope.If you took hold of the rope you could be pulled to safety.If you did not take hold of the rope you could not be pulled to safety.Whose fault would it be if you drowned?Would it be the fault of the person who provided the rope?Or would it be your fault for not taking hold of the rope?Mankind is in the same position today. The man in the garden threw all of us overboard.God provided a way of escape from that condition at Calvary.He offered a rope whereby mankind could be saved.But if mankind will not take hold of the offer of God he will perish.Will it be God's fault even though He provided a way of escape?Or will it be mankinds fault if he does not escape?God Bless,

Hi PD, And what does that have to do with the relationship of the man who was formed from the dust of the ground and God? Do you have text to support that assertion?

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Romans 3:19 Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.

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3:20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.

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3:28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.

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Ephesians 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

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2:9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

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Hebrews 9:11 But Christ being come an high priest of good things to come, by a greater and more perfect tabernacle, not made with hands, that is to say, not of this building;

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9:12 Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us.

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1 Peter 1:18 Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers;

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1:19 But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot:

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1:20 Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you,

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1:21 Who by him do believe in God, that raised him up from the dead, and gave him glory; that your faith and hope might be in God.

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1:22 Seeing ye have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit unto unfeigned love of the brethren, see that ye love one another with a pure heart fervently:

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1:23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.

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All these scriptures refute your assertion. The story has been part of God's message to mankind every since He told the story to Moses and told him to write it down. Moses spent 40 days with God on mount Sinai during which time He told Moses many things.All the things God told Moses on mount Sinai He told Moses to write.So yes the story is important and that is why we have a record of it.God formed man from the dust of the Ground and gave him one command which was not to eat the fruit of a specific tree.That man disobeyed God and was cast out of the presence of God. Because of that all mankind is separated from a Holy and Just God.Isaiah said the best you got to offer God is as filthly rags.

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Isaiah 64:6 But we are all as an unclean thing, and all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away.

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That is the reason God had to come down to Earth in the form of a man we call Jesus and offer Himself a sacrifice for mankind to restore us to a right relationship with God.God Bless,