|
Register | Sign In |
|
QuickSearch
Summations Only | Thread ▼ Details |
Member (Idle past 2962 days) Posts: 706 From: Joliet, il, USA Joined: |
|
Thread Info
|
|
|
Author | Topic: When does human life begin? | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
shadow71 Member (Idle past 2962 days) Posts: 706 From: Joliet, il, USA Joined: |
Evlreala writes:
To be fair, at 9 months if it's still a fetus and is about to be born the question of abortion has long sense not been an issue... You still have the issue of Intact dilation and extraction or partial birth abortion at 9 months. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|
||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
shadow71 Member (Idle past 2962 days) Posts: 706 From: Joliet, il, USA Joined: |
WSW24 writes:
I'm a bit uneasy on abortion myself, but even then the contrast between the pro-life picture of God loathing abortion, and the uncaring processes of nature are a bit glaring. Even aside from the topic of abortion the zygote death rate is a huge difficulty in determining life as ''it has a soul, so it's life'' terms in the Christian context. How do you harmonize all of this? I also have a difficult time accepting the loss of zygotes per the articles, but I believe there are some phenomen that the human beings will never know and that in my opinion is God's will. My prayer is that those zygots are in a better place. Once again I stress that I believe the soul comes into being at the beginning of life, but of course, I can't prove that. That is God's will not ours to know. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|
||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
shadow71 Member (Idle past 2962 days) Posts: 706 From: Joliet, il, USA Joined: |
Granny Magda writes:
Anyway, Godwin's Law applies. You mentioned Hitler, thus you lose. Not familar with that law, but I don't think it a good idea to forget or never mention Hilter.
|
||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Straggler Member (Idle past 94 days) Posts: 10333 From: London England Joined: |
If 60 percent of human souls ends up in a better place as part of God’s will without ever having physically existed as anything more than a few cells or having any comprehension of physical existence one has to wonder what the point of the other 40 percent of us is.
I am the 40%.....
|
||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
shadow71 Member (Idle past 2962 days) Posts: 706 From: Joliet, il, USA Joined: |
bluegenes writes:
She wrote an opinion piece for a non-scientific publication in which she claims, quite literally, that a zygote is a human being. Read the article.There is nothing scientific in it that actually supports her view. A zygote is not a human being by definition, just as an acorn is not an oak tree by definition. Where may I find that definition? She took the definiton of organism from a dictionary. p6. An organism is defined as (1) a complex structure of interdependent and subordinate elements whose relations and properties are largely determined by their functionin the whole and (2) an individual constituted to carry on the activities of life by means of organs separate in function but mutually dependent: a living being.22 In the paper she explains why the sperm and egg prior to fusion is devoted to the actual fusion. After the fusion the zygote intitates a program of development that will become through formation, excluding accident, or external intervention, that will form a body, birth and all the human being development such as childhood, adolescencem maturity, aging and death. That is a scientific explanation.
|
||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
shadow71 Member (Idle past 2962 days) Posts: 706 From: Joliet, il, USA Joined: |
Straggler writes:
Do you accept that natural abortions are the biggest killer of "human life" known to man? If so - What do you suggest we do about his tragic majority? Anything at all? I have read the paper and I cannot dispute it.I hope science is working on a remedy, if in fact there can be a remedy, but I don't see how that justifies an intentional abortion.
|
||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
jar Member (Idle past 423 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
Sorry but that is simply word salad and pea palming.
Do you see the phrase "...will become through formation..." in what you posted? If something "will become" something else then it is not yet that thing.Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
|
||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Perdition Member (Idle past 3266 days) Posts: 1593 From: Wisconsin Joined:
|
an individual constituted to carry on the activities of life by means of organs separate in function but mutually dependent: a living being. But while the fetus is dependent on the mother for survival, it would seem to fail this part of the definition, would it not. Not to mention, until differentiation, there are no different organs, again failing this part. At best, it would seem that the fetus is a part of the mother, meaning she can have it removed, if she wants.
|
||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
shadow71 Member (Idle past 2962 days) Posts: 706 From: Joliet, il, USA Joined: |
Malcolm writes:
The only difference is in the way the genes in those cells are expressed, but here again she tries to equivocate by suggesting that the cells in the developing embryo are working towards some grand plan to produce a mature human body. But what is really happening is as the cells multiply they interact with their neighbours, causing variation in their gene expression and altering the trajectory of their daughter cells into gradually more specific tissue types. It just so happens that these local interactions lead to an adult human. Have you ever seen a zygote as defined in her paper develop into any organism except a human being?So I don't agree that "It just so happens that these local interactions lead to an adult human."
|
||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
bluegenes Member (Idle past 2506 days) Posts: 3119 From: U.K. Joined:
|
shadow71 writes: Where may I find that definition? Zygote Definition and Examples - Biology Online Dictionary I'll leave you to find me a dictionary definition of "human being" or "person" that includes the phrase "a cell".
shadow71 writes: She took the definiton of organism from a dictionary. p6. An organism is defined as (1) a complex structure of interdependent and subordinate elements whose relations and properties are largely determined by their functionin the whole and (2) an individual constituted to carry on the activities of life by means of organs separate in function but mutually dependent: a living being.22 In the paper she explains why the sperm and egg prior to fusion is devoted to the actual fusion. After the fusion the zygote intitates a program of development that will become through formation, excluding accident, or external intervention, that will form a body, birth and all the human being development such as childhood, adolescencem maturity, aging and death. That is a scientific explanation. It is indeed a scientific explanation of a stage in human development that can lead to the existence of a person, and, as you point out, eventually a corpse. That does not mean that a zygote is a person or a corpse. Do you still not understand my point that her scientific description does not lead to her philosophical conclusion? I explained that if an "X" can potentially become a "Y" through a process of transformation, the "X" is not a "Y" until the transformation has taken place. You don't seriously consider yourself to be a corpse, do you?
Easy concepts related to transformation for beginners.
|
||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
hooah212002 Member (Idle past 830 days) Posts: 3193 Joined: |
I also have a difficult time accepting the loss of zygotes per the articles.... My prayer is that those zygots are in a better place. I have to call Poe on this (and on you in general). Either that, or you have absolutely zero clue what a zygote is.... I'd venture a guess that if we showed you a picture of an amoeba and told you it was a human zygote you'd both believe it AND realize that you had never seen one before. hint: a zygote is not a cute fluffy little baby.Mythology is what we call someone else’s religion. Joseph Campbell
|
||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Perdition Member (Idle past 3266 days) Posts: 1593 From: Wisconsin Joined:
|
Either that, or you have absolutely zero clue what a zygote is. Maybe he just dreams of a heaven full of cells floating around, unseen, unknown and unaware of their place in paradise. Or maybe, they're food for the Heaven Whales who filter them out of the ether.
|
||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
shadow71 Member (Idle past 2962 days) Posts: 706 From: Joliet, il, USA Joined: |
bluegenes writes:
I explained that if an "X" can potentially become a "Y" through a process of transformation, the "X" is not a "Y" until the transformation has taken place. When does a human being become a human being in your mind?I would also like to see some support for your opinion. I like the "I explained" part of your answer. Once you say it I guess all dialogue stops and the omniscient one has spoken the truth?Get a life.
|
||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
shadow71 Member (Idle past 2962 days) Posts: 706 From: Joliet, il, USA Joined: |
Juvenile replies will not be responded to.
|
||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
shadow71 Member (Idle past 2962 days) Posts: 706 From: Joliet, il, USA Joined: |
juvenile posts will not be responded to.
|
|
|
Do Nothing Button
Copyright 2001-2023 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved
Version 4.2
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2024