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Author Topic:   Romney the Bully
Jazzns
Member (Idle past 3942 days)
Posts: 2657
From: A Better America
Joined: 07-23-2004


Message 1 of 264 (661842)
05-10-2012 5:28 PM


Bullying has been in the forefront of our consciousness lately. This is especially true of the bullying of gay children due to the horrifying suicides that have followed.
Now it turns out, one leading party's candidate for president is a bully extraordinair, especially when the target of his bullying appears to be gay.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/...05/10/gIQA3WOKFU_print.html
John Lauber, a soft-spoken new student one year behind Romney, was perpetually teased for his nonconformity and presumed homosexuality. Now he was walking around the all-boys school with bleached-blond hair that draped over one eye, and Romney wasn’t having it.
He can’t look like that. That’s wrong. Just look at him! an incensed Romney told Matthew Friedemann, his close friend in the Stevens Hall dorm, according to Friedemann’s recollection. Mitt, the teenaged son of Michigan Gov. George Romney, kept complaining about Lauber’s look, Friedemann recalled.
A few days later, Friedemann entered Stevens Hall off the school’s collegiate quad to find Romney marching out of his own room ahead of a prep school posse shouting about their plan to cut Lauber’s hair. Friedemann followed them to a nearby room where they came upon Lauber, tackled him and pinned him to the ground. As Lauber, his eyes filling with tears, screamed for help, Romney repeatedly clipped his hair with a pair of scissors.
Edited by Adminnemooseus, : Reset big "signature" to a smaller (size=1) font.

BUT if objects for gratitude and admiration are our desire, do they not present themselves every hour to our eyes? Do we not see a fair creation prepared to receive us the instant we are born --a world furnished to our hands, that cost us nothing? Is it we that light up the sun; that pour down the rain; and fill the earth with abundance? Whether we sleep or wake, the vast machinery of the universe still goes on. Are these things, and the blessings they indicate in future, nothing to, us? Can our gross feelings be excited by no other subjects than tragedy and suicide? Or is the gloomy pride of man become so intolerable, that nothing can flatter it but a sacrifice of the Creator? --Thomas Paine

Replies to this message:
 Message 2 by fearandloathing, posted 05-10-2012 5:47 PM Jazzns has not replied
 Message 3 by Dr Jack, posted 05-10-2012 5:50 PM Jazzns has replied
 Message 10 by Shield, posted 05-10-2012 6:11 PM Jazzns has not replied
 Message 104 by Artemis Entreri, posted 05-16-2012 9:45 AM Jazzns has replied

  
Jazzns
Member (Idle past 3942 days)
Posts: 2657
From: A Better America
Joined: 07-23-2004


(1)
Message 4 of 264 (661853)
05-10-2012 5:56 PM
Reply to: Message 3 by Dr Jack
05-10-2012 5:50 PM


Over forty years ago, when he was a child.
It's fucking bullshit to bring it up now.
So character and upbringing isn't relevant to electing arguably the most powerful person in the world?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 3 by Dr Jack, posted 05-10-2012 5:50 PM Dr Jack has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 5 by Dr Jack, posted 05-10-2012 6:02 PM Jazzns has replied
 Message 7 by jar, posted 05-10-2012 6:05 PM Jazzns has replied

  
Jazzns
Member (Idle past 3942 days)
Posts: 2657
From: A Better America
Joined: 07-23-2004


Message 6 of 264 (661856)
05-10-2012 6:04 PM
Reply to: Message 5 by Dr Jack
05-10-2012 6:02 PM


Upbringing isn't, no.
I respectfully disagree.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 5 by Dr Jack, posted 05-10-2012 6:02 PM Dr Jack has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 15 by Dr Jack, posted 05-10-2012 6:19 PM Jazzns has replied

  
Jazzns
Member (Idle past 3942 days)
Posts: 2657
From: A Better America
Joined: 07-23-2004


(2)
Message 16 of 264 (661869)
05-10-2012 6:19 PM
Reply to: Message 7 by jar
05-10-2012 6:05 PM


Kid?
I perhaps should have quoted from the beginning of the article.
Mitt Romney returned from a three-week spring break in 1965 to resume his studies as a high school senior at the prestigious Cranbrook School. Back on the handsome campus, studded with Tudor brick buildings and manicured fields, he spotted something he thought did not belong at a school where the boys wore ties and carried briefcases.
He was a senior! At the beginning of the year. That probably made him 17 at a minimum. 17 year olds have been put into prison as adults for crimes.
I am sorry, I just plainly disagree that this is irrelevant to the question of his character.
Furthermore, subsequent to the story you have denials that this happened, then acceptance followed by a half-assed, "if anyone was hurt or offended" apology.
If it isn't such a big deal because what we do as 17 year olds doesn't matter, why the denial?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 7 by jar, posted 05-10-2012 6:05 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 17 by jar, posted 05-10-2012 6:21 PM Jazzns has not replied

  
Jazzns
Member (Idle past 3942 days)
Posts: 2657
From: A Better America
Joined: 07-23-2004


(2)
Message 19 of 264 (661872)
05-10-2012 6:28 PM
Reply to: Message 15 by Dr Jack
05-10-2012 6:19 PM


Re: Upbringing
If it is reflected in what they feel is acceptable behavior? Yes. If by the time Romney was 17 he didn't have a conscious sense that assaulting another human being was wrong, I can absolutely question his moral upbringing in relation to his suitability to be the commander-in-chief of the most powerful nuclear armed military in the world.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 15 by Dr Jack, posted 05-10-2012 6:19 PM Dr Jack has not replied

  
Jazzns
Member (Idle past 3942 days)
Posts: 2657
From: A Better America
Joined: 07-23-2004


(1)
Message 28 of 264 (661886)
05-10-2012 7:01 PM
Reply to: Message 25 by Dr Jack
05-10-2012 6:47 PM


Re: Change is possible
No, I'm not assuming that. I'm saying that if you want to use the past against him you need to dig up incidents from when he was not a child.
So what SHOULD be the statute of limitations for when we can form opinions about someone's character? You seem to think 50 years is too long.
What about if he had done this his freshman year of college?
What about his first years at Bain? Are we allowed to consider it then?
Lets also not forget the fact that Romney continues to OPENLY advocate for the treatment of LBGT people as second class citizens.

BUT if objects for gratitude and admiration are our desire, do they not present themselves every hour to our eyes? Do we not see a fair creation prepared to receive us the instant we are born --a world furnished to our hands, that cost us nothing? Is it we that light up the sun; that pour down the rain; and fill the earth with abundance? Whether we sleep or wake, the vast machinery of the universe still goes on. Are these things, and the blessings they indicate in future, nothing to, us? Can our gross feelings be excited by no other subjects than tragedy and suicide? Or is the gloomy pride of man become so intolerable, that nothing can flatter it but a sacrifice of the Creator? --Thomas Paine

This message is a reply to:
 Message 25 by Dr Jack, posted 05-10-2012 6:47 PM Dr Jack has not replied

Replies to this message:
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 Message 30 by jar, posted 05-10-2012 7:59 PM Jazzns has not replied

  
Jazzns
Member (Idle past 3942 days)
Posts: 2657
From: A Better America
Joined: 07-23-2004


(3)
Message 38 of 264 (661919)
05-10-2012 10:18 PM
Reply to: Message 36 by Coyote
05-10-2012 9:34 PM


Re: Change is possible
Is this the correct place to bring up Obama's admitted high school drug abuse?
Sure. Comparisons are more than fair.
1. Obama publicly admitted that he did so without the need of a journalistic expose.
2. Drug use as a character flaw is objectively different than that of hateful violent bully.
But hey...to each his own. If drug use is more of a deal breaker for you than violence then you are welcome to your opinion.

BUT if objects for gratitude and admiration are our desire, do they not present themselves every hour to our eyes? Do we not see a fair creation prepared to receive us the instant we are born --a world furnished to our hands, that cost us nothing? Is it we that light up the sun; that pour down the rain; and fill the earth with abundance? Whether we sleep or wake, the vast machinery of the universe still goes on. Are these things, and the blessings they indicate in future, nothing to, us? Can our gross feelings be excited by no other subjects than tragedy and suicide? Or is the gloomy pride of man become so intolerable, that nothing can flatter it but a sacrifice of the Creator? --Thomas Paine

This message is a reply to:
 Message 36 by Coyote, posted 05-10-2012 9:34 PM Coyote has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 40 by Coyote, posted 05-10-2012 10:32 PM Jazzns has replied

  
Jazzns
Member (Idle past 3942 days)
Posts: 2657
From: A Better America
Joined: 07-23-2004


Message 46 of 264 (661930)
05-10-2012 11:09 PM
Reply to: Message 40 by Coyote
05-10-2012 10:32 PM


Re: Change is possible
The point of my reply was in response to your comment
That wasn't my comment.
Any such test applied to Obama?
I don't actually care if Obama still did drugs. So like I said, if thats a deal breaker for you, so be it.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 40 by Coyote, posted 05-10-2012 10:32 PM Coyote has not replied

  
Jazzns
Member (Idle past 3942 days)
Posts: 2657
From: A Better America
Joined: 07-23-2004


(2)
Message 54 of 264 (661940)
05-11-2012 12:10 AM
Reply to: Message 49 by Coyote
05-10-2012 11:31 PM


Re: denial is not admitting you are wrong
Pot and cocaine use were then, and still are, mentioned disparagingly in many a statute book.
So because the American legal system is uptight about drugs that is supposed to make people feel worse about Obama's flaws?
But you condemn the former as a character flaw which must persist nearly 50 years later, while excusing the latter, which, for all we know, may have continued up to the present unless I've missed a renunciation somewhere.
But Romney's flaws do persist today. His actions back then are entirely consistent with his existing positions against the rights of homosexuals. The things he DID as governor reflect that as well as the things he says today.
If Obama were still doing drugs today, yea it would make him a hypocrite due to the crackdown on drugs he is focusing on in his administration. Which is why it would be inconsistent with his current views and actions. If the only thing that will appease you is for Obama to come out every once and awhile to proclaim that he still doesn't do drugs then, well, your just trolling.
However, we have yet to even get Romney to admit that he actually did anything wrong at all!
Yes, I see a double standard there.
Well I see someone who REALLY doesn't want to talk about the issue and thinks the best way to distract everyone is with the tired, "but Obama isn't perfect either!" argument.
Leave it to conservative to desperately try to make experimenting with drugs equivalent to the violent and emotional scarring victimization of an innocent person.

BUT if objects for gratitude and admiration are our desire, do they not present themselves every hour to our eyes? Do we not see a fair creation prepared to receive us the instant we are born --a world furnished to our hands, that cost us nothing? Is it we that light up the sun; that pour down the rain; and fill the earth with abundance? Whether we sleep or wake, the vast machinery of the universe still goes on. Are these things, and the blessings they indicate in future, nothing to, us? Can our gross feelings be excited by no other subjects than tragedy and suicide? Or is the gloomy pride of man become so intolerable, that nothing can flatter it but a sacrifice of the Creator? --Thomas Paine

This message is a reply to:
 Message 49 by Coyote, posted 05-10-2012 11:31 PM Coyote has not replied

  
Jazzns
Member (Idle past 3942 days)
Posts: 2657
From: A Better America
Joined: 07-23-2004


Message 149 of 264 (662719)
05-18-2012 11:42 AM
Reply to: Message 104 by Artemis Entreri
05-16-2012 9:45 AM


Shocking!
typical leftist character assassination.
As opposed to right wing character assassination which only seems to consist of lies or reminders that Obama is ... you know ... black.
you are really grabbing at straws to go back so far.
A short glib response from Artemis that adds nothing to the discussion!?
I am shocked, SHOCKED to find trolling happening on an Internet forum of all places!

BUT if objects for gratitude and admiration are our desire, do they not present themselves every hour to our eyes? Do we not see a fair creation prepared to receive us the instant we are born --a world furnished to our hands, that cost us nothing? Is it we that light up the sun; that pour down the rain; and fill the earth with abundance? Whether we sleep or wake, the vast machinery of the universe still goes on. Are these things, and the blessings they indicate in future, nothing to, us? Can our gross feelings be excited by no other subjects than tragedy and suicide? Or is the gloomy pride of man become so intolerable, that nothing can flatter it but a sacrifice of the Creator? --Thomas Paine

This message is a reply to:
 Message 104 by Artemis Entreri, posted 05-16-2012 9:45 AM Artemis Entreri has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 150 by Artemis Entreri, posted 05-18-2012 1:16 PM Jazzns has not replied

  
Jazzns
Member (Idle past 3942 days)
Posts: 2657
From: A Better America
Joined: 07-23-2004


(3)
Message 235 of 264 (665072)
06-07-2012 4:18 PM


Romney the criminal police impersonator?
With the caveat that this has not seen mainstream coverage (for what thats worth)
Did Young Mitt Romney Impersonate A Police Officer? Another Witness Says Yes - National Memo
When Mitt Romney was a college freshman, he told fellow residents of his Stanford University dormitory that he sometimes disguised himself as a police officer - a crime in many states, including Michigan and California, where he then lived. And he had the uniform on display as proof.
So recalls Robin Madden, who had also just arrived as a freshman, the startling incident began when Romney called him and two or three other residents into his room, saying, "Come up, I want to show you something." When they entered Romney's room, "and laid out on his bed was a Michigan State Trooper's uniform."
...
Phillip Maxwell, a prep school buddy, told the New Republic in 2008 that Romney had pulled over students from a girls school next door to Cranbrook while wearing a police uniform as a prank. Other former classmates described Mitt as a "happy-go-lucky guy known less for his achievements and more for his pranks."
In The Real Romney, a biography published by Boston Globe reporters Michael Kranish and Scott Helman this year, another former friend recalled how Romney had "put a siren on top of his car and chased two of his friends who were driving around with their dates." The two friends were in on the scheme, but the girls were not. There was beer in the car trunk, according to a prearranged plan. Mitt told his two counterparts to get out of their vehicle and into his car. Then they drove off, leaving the girls behind.
"It was a terrible thing to do," said one of his accomplices, a Cranbrook classmate named Graham McDonald.
Assuming this is true, when are we allowed to come to the conclusion that this guy has a character problem? Or is this still too long ago to "count"?

BUT if objects for gratitude and admiration are our desire, do they not present themselves every hour to our eyes? Do we not see a fair creation prepared to receive us the instant we are born --a world furnished to our hands, that cost us nothing? Is it we that light up the sun; that pour down the rain; and fill the earth with abundance? Whether we sleep or wake, the vast machinery of the universe still goes on. Are these things, and the blessings they indicate in future, nothing to, us? Can our gross feelings be excited by no other subjects than tragedy and suicide? Or is the gloomy pride of man become so intolerable, that nothing can flatter it but a sacrifice of the Creator? --Thomas Paine

Replies to this message:
 Message 236 by Coyote, posted 06-07-2012 5:26 PM Jazzns has replied
 Message 237 by ooh-child, posted 06-07-2012 6:39 PM Jazzns has not replied
 Message 240 by New Cat's Eye, posted 06-08-2012 10:53 AM Jazzns has replied

  
Jazzns
Member (Idle past 3942 days)
Posts: 2657
From: A Better America
Joined: 07-23-2004


(2)
Message 239 of 264 (665095)
06-07-2012 7:21 PM
Reply to: Message 236 by Coyote
06-07-2012 5:26 PM


Re: Romney the criminal police impersonator?
You're right. We should also include people who have nothing to add to the discussion except meaningless insults.

BUT if objects for gratitude and admiration are our desire, do they not present themselves every hour to our eyes? Do we not see a fair creation prepared to receive us the instant we are born --a world furnished to our hands, that cost us nothing? Is it we that light up the sun; that pour down the rain; and fill the earth with abundance? Whether we sleep or wake, the vast machinery of the universe still goes on. Are these things, and the blessings they indicate in future, nothing to, us? Can our gross feelings be excited by no other subjects than tragedy and suicide? Or is the gloomy pride of man become so intolerable, that nothing can flatter it but a sacrifice of the Creator? --Thomas Paine

This message is a reply to:
 Message 236 by Coyote, posted 06-07-2012 5:26 PM Coyote has not replied

  
Jazzns
Member (Idle past 3942 days)
Posts: 2657
From: A Better America
Joined: 07-23-2004


(1)
Message 241 of 264 (665121)
06-08-2012 12:09 PM
Reply to: Message 240 by New Cat's Eye
06-08-2012 10:53 AM


Re: Romney the criminal police impersonator?
When you've got more than bringing up old shit about pranks he pulled in college.
You cannot tell me that if the roles were reversed, that the right would spare Obama with the argument that it was "pranks he pulled in college."
When there is a discussion about which dark skinned social activists Obama shook hands with when he was younger, you can't say that the crimes someone commits when they are younger are off limits.
I happen to think that if you choose to run for president, that there is very little that is off limits. That is especially true of conscious decisions you made (repeatidly) as adult.
Yes. What you did in college is not your character today.
When it comes to the aspect of my character that has respect for other people and the law, my character since college is unchanged.
Sure, Romney may have changed. I am not here to convict someone for their entire life. Presidential candidates simply SHOULD be deeply scrutinized and I just don't have any positive reason to believe that has changed.
Edited by Jazzns, : No reason given.

BUT if objects for gratitude and admiration are our desire, do they not present themselves every hour to our eyes? Do we not see a fair creation prepared to receive us the instant we are born --a world furnished to our hands, that cost us nothing? Is it we that light up the sun; that pour down the rain; and fill the earth with abundance? Whether we sleep or wake, the vast machinery of the universe still goes on. Are these things, and the blessings they indicate in future, nothing to, us? Can our gross feelings be excited by no other subjects than tragedy and suicide? Or is the gloomy pride of man become so intolerable, that nothing can flatter it but a sacrifice of the Creator? --Thomas Paine

This message is a reply to:
 Message 240 by New Cat's Eye, posted 06-08-2012 10:53 AM New Cat's Eye has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 242 by New Cat's Eye, posted 06-08-2012 12:33 PM Jazzns has not replied

  
Jazzns
Member (Idle past 3942 days)
Posts: 2657
From: A Better America
Joined: 07-23-2004


(1)
Message 263 of 264 (665430)
06-13-2012 1:01 PM


Romney the Bully as Governor!
Maybe this will address the cries of illegitimacy over Romney's indescretion as a youth.
Mitt Romney’s administration stifled antibullying guide over language on bisexual, transgender youth - The Boston Globe
Former governor Mitt Romney's administration in 2006 blocked publication of a state antibullying guide for Massachusetts public schools because officials objected to use of the terms "bisexual'' and "transgender'' in passages about protecting certain students from harassment, according to state records and interviews with current and former state officials.
Romney aides said publicly at the time that publication of the guide had been delayed because it was a lengthy document that required further review. But an e-mail authored in May of that year by a high-ranking Department of Public Health official - and obtained last week by the Globe through a public records request - reflected a different reason.
"Because this is using the terms `bisexual' and `transgendered,' DPH's name may not be used in this publication,'' wrote the official, Alda Rego-Weathers, then the deputy commissioner of the Massachusetts Department of Public Health.
Because the Department of Public Health was the primary sponsor and funding source of the guide, the move effectively blocked its publication.
So here we have an official act square at the feet of a more than adult Romney, in his capacity as governor, in the effect of protecting bullies of LGBT people.
Moreover, I think this support for my original position that his actions as a young adult matter. They are demonstrative of an attitude that is discriminating that has colored his choices throughout his life.
I have never made a claim that people cannot change. But to say that our actions, even long ago are meaningless to our current selves is more than just a little disingenuous.

BUT if objects for gratitude and admiration are our desire, do they not present themselves every hour to our eyes? Do we not see a fair creation prepared to receive us the instant we are born --a world furnished to our hands, that cost us nothing? Is it we that light up the sun; that pour down the rain; and fill the earth with abundance? Whether we sleep or wake, the vast machinery of the universe still goes on. Are these things, and the blessings they indicate in future, nothing to, us? Can our gross feelings be excited by no other subjects than tragedy and suicide? Or is the gloomy pride of man become so intolerable, that nothing can flatter it but a sacrifice of the Creator? --Thomas Paine

Replies to this message:
 Message 264 by Dr Adequate, posted 06-13-2012 3:14 PM Jazzns has not replied

  
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