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Member (Idle past 3941 days) Posts: 2657 From: A Better America Joined: |
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Author | Topic: Romney the Bully | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Jazzns Member (Idle past 3941 days) Posts: 2657 From: A Better America Joined:
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I perhaps should have quoted from the beginning of the article.
Mitt Romney returned from a three-week spring break in 1965 to resume his studies as a high school senior at the prestigious Cranbrook School. Back on the handsome campus, studded with Tudor brick buildings and manicured fields, he spotted something he thought did not belong at a school where the boys wore ties and carried briefcases. He was a senior! At the beginning of the year. That probably made him 17 at a minimum. 17 year olds have been put into prison as adults for crimes. I am sorry, I just plainly disagree that this is irrelevant to the question of his character. Furthermore, subsequent to the story you have denials that this happened, then acceptance followed by a half-assed, "if anyone was hurt or offended" apology. If it isn't such a big deal because what we do as 17 year olds doesn't matter, why the denial?
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jar Member (Idle past 424 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined:
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Because it became a media event.
Sorry but I fear that as a child of 17, even 18, I too did many things I wish I hadn't. But I am not 17 or 18 now and I learned from those mistakes.Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
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RAZD Member (Idle past 1435 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined: |
Hi Jar
The character of of kid is not relevant when looking at the adult. He was old enough to drive a car and make adult decisions. The child that tortures cats and dogs is exhibiting behavior that is not relevant when they become a sociopathic murderer? Formative behavior patterns tend to mold the person. Sociopath Warning Signs | Healthfully
quote: Page not found | Sandra Rose
quote: Those are the first two google hits on sociopath childhood Personally I think bullying is sociopathic behavior that cannot just be brushed away because it was long ago. Also see waking you up - psychopathic bullying | psychopaths who bully | murder by suicide | puzzling people
quote: I think it says a lot about how Mitt does business ... who admits that he likes to fire people ... Enjoy. Edited by RAZD, : added Edited by RAZD, : qsouteby our ability to understand Rebel American Zen Deist ... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ... to share. Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)
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Jazzns Member (Idle past 3941 days) Posts: 2657 From: A Better America Joined:
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If it is reflected in what they feel is acceptable behavior? Yes. If by the time Romney was 17 he didn't have a conscious sense that assaulting another human being was wrong, I can absolutely question his moral upbringing in relation to his suitability to be the commander-in-chief of the most powerful nuclear armed military in the world.
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ooh-child Member (Idle past 374 days) Posts: 242 Joined:
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Typically graduation age is closer to 18 years old - I graduated one month shy of my 18th.
Mormon youths like Romney are expected to go on their missionary trip at around that age. Two years of preaching in another country, on their own; sounds pretty adult to me.
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jar Member (Idle past 424 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined:
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Come on now RAZD, please show where Romney tortured cats and dogs.
Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
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Dr Jack Member Posts: 3514 From: Immigrant in the land of Deutsch Joined: Member Rating: 9.2
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A 17 year old is a child, and this was almost 50 years ago. Do you honestly think people can't change in that time?
Would you rather that every presidential hopeful need to guard their every action from the age of what, 15? 16? 17?, in order to be considered for election?
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Dr Jack Member Posts: 3514 From: Immigrant in the land of Deutsch Joined: Member Rating: 9.2
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Loads of people are involved in bullying. Not least people who are bullied themselves.
You, RAZD, have engaged in behaviour here - on EvCForum - that could be described as bullying. There is no clean divide between bullies and not bullies. It's bad behaviour, but nearly everyone has engaged in it at one time or another.
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RAZD Member (Idle past 1435 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined:
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Hi Mr Jack
Do I think he has changed? No, I don't. I think Romney was scum then and scum now. And his behavior? or does he still bully?
However, I think people can change, and in order for people to be allowed to change we have to assume they can and be willing to let the past rest. I also know that a great many people did shitty things in high school. They also have to be shown that they need to change. Apparently he was not even reprimanded or ostracized in any way for his behavior, rather he had a bunch of cohorts that helped, giving him reinforcement and reason to think it was proper behavior.
Forty years, RAZD, it's a very long time to still be paying for one's mistakes. You are assuming that bully behavior stopped at 18, an age old enough to be drafted ... Enjoy.by our ability to understand Rebel American Zen Deist ... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ... to share. Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)
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Dr Jack Member Posts: 3514 From: Immigrant in the land of Deutsch Joined: Member Rating: 9.2
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You are assuming that bully behavior stopped at 18, an age old enough to be drafted ... No, I'm not assuming that. I'm saying that if you want to use the past against him you need to dig up incidents from when he was not a child.
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Rahvin Member Posts: 4046 Joined: Member Rating: 8.3
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Personally I think bullying is sociopathic behavior that cannot just be brushed away because it was long ago. The vast majority of childhood bullies are not, in fact sociopaths. Bullying is not itself a "sociopathic behavior." It's morally reprehensible, but this would be a good time to bring out your "Not all A are B" Venn diagrams. In fact, the articles quoted seem to focus more on fearmongering about sociopaths than actually describing them accurately. Just because someone's sense of emotional empathy is altered or even missing does not mean one will end up a serial killer. A sociopath is not a "bad seed" doomed to eventually murder his family, contrary to the words of the reporter you quoted. They are more likely to be prone to violence, but typically this is due to the addition of an additional psychological problem like poor impulse control. Most sociopaths are very good at integrating in society. I think "sociopath" and "psychopath" are too frequently flung around by armchair internet psychiatrists. I think it's getting to the point on some forums (not necessarily this one) that it may become a new Godwin's Law, akin to calling people Nazis. Romney's behavior, assuming the story is true, was absolutely reprehensible and not at all excused simply because he was likely around 17. And while change can happen, he's certainly given no reason to think that he's changed at all with the exception that he's not likely to express his bigotry and hatred so directly and physically. His behavior appalls but fails to surprise me given his stance on homosexuality and that of the Mormon church. A story of childhood bullying some 40 years past would not be sufficient to cause me to not vote for a man...but his continued stance against equality for homosexuals is, and this story acts as nothing more than additional confirmation that Romney's homophobia likely runs very, very deep.The human understanding when it has once adopted an opinion (either as being the received opinion or as being agreeable to itself) draws all things else to support and agree with it. - Francis Bacon "There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs." - John Rogers A world that can be explained even with bad reasons is a familiar world. But, on the other hand, in a universe suddenly divested of illusions and lights, man feels an alien, a stranger. His exile is without remedy since he is deprived of the memory of a lost home or the hope of a promised land. This divorce between man and his life, the actor and his setting, is properly the feeling of absurdity. — Albert Camus "...the pious hope that by combining numerous little turds ofvariously tainted data, one can obtain a valuable result; but in fact, the outcome is merely a larger than average pile of shit." Barash, David 1995.
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ooh-child Member (Idle past 374 days) Posts: 242 Joined: |
Of course people can change! I'm not the same as I was at 17, although I was living on my own, going to HS, & managing my financial affairs. So I kinda expect Mitt to be around the same level at that age.
But as I said, this story is more of a tell about Mitt's sense of entitlement: 'Sure I can assault a weirdo kid in school - it's just horseplay. I can't have undocumented workers caring for my lawn - I'm running for President, for Pete's sake! It's our turn to move into the White House.' Stuff like that. And this isn't the only presidential candidate to have his character/judgement questioned by his school attendance & behavior. Madrassas, anyone?
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Jazzns Member (Idle past 3941 days) Posts: 2657 From: A Better America Joined:
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No, I'm not assuming that. I'm saying that if you want to use the past against him you need to dig up incidents from when he was not a child. So what SHOULD be the statute of limitations for when we can form opinions about someone's character? You seem to think 50 years is too long. What about if he had done this his freshman year of college? What about his first years at Bain? Are we allowed to consider it then? Lets also not forget the fact that Romney continues to OPENLY advocate for the treatment of LBGT people as second class citizens.BUT if objects for gratitude and admiration are our desire, do they not present themselves every hour to our eyes? Do we not see a fair creation prepared to receive us the instant we are born --a world furnished to our hands, that cost us nothing? Is it we that light up the sun; that pour down the rain; and fill the earth with abundance? Whether we sleep or wake, the vast machinery of the universe still goes on. Are these things, and the blessings they indicate in future, nothing to, us? Can our gross feelings be excited by no other subjects than tragedy and suicide? Or is the gloomy pride of man become so intolerable, that nothing can flatter it but a sacrifice of the Creator? --Thomas Paine
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Rahvin Member Posts: 4046 Joined: Member Rating: 8.3
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Lets also not forget the fact that Romney continues to OPENLY advocate for the treatment of LBGT people as second class citizens. I think this bears far more relevance to Romney's character than a single event some 40 years ago. It's only because his continued open advocacy of anti-gay policies that makes a single 40-year-old event in the same general theme even remotely relevant today. If Romney today was advocating for equal rights for all and the availability of gay marriage, I think we'd all be looking at his childhood bullying as an example of how far he's come. Instead, it's an example of how far he hasn't.The human understanding when it has once adopted an opinion (either as being the received opinion or as being agreeable to itself) draws all things else to support and agree with it. - Francis Bacon "There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs." - John Rogers A world that can be explained even with bad reasons is a familiar world. But, on the other hand, in a universe suddenly divested of illusions and lights, man feels an alien, a stranger. His exile is without remedy since he is deprived of the memory of a lost home or the hope of a promised land. This divorce between man and his life, the actor and his setting, is properly the feeling of absurdity. — Albert Camus "...the pious hope that by combining numerous little turds ofvariously tainted data, one can obtain a valuable result; but in fact, the outcome is merely a larger than average pile of shit." Barash, David 1995.
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jar Member (Idle past 424 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined:
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Lets also not forget the fact that Romney continues to OPENLY advocate for the treatment of LBGT people as second class citizens. And THAT is what you should judge him on.Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
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