|
Register | Sign In |
|
QuickSearch
Thread ▼ Details |
Member (Idle past 3850 days) Posts: 72 From: Los Angeles, California Joined: |
|
Thread Info
|
|
|
Author | Topic: Bible Teachings or Traditions of Men? | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Alter2Ego Member (Idle past 3850 days) Posts: 72 From: Los Angeles, California Joined: |
quote:ALTER2EGO -to- PURPLEDAWN: You are coming back with the same wash, rinse, and repeat. Therefore, I will repeat what I previously told you . After this, you can argue this particular point with someone else as I will not respond. Thomas was imperfect, as are all humans who are offspring of Adam. Your argument is that because Thomas said "My Lord and My God," at John 20:28, the mere fact that his sayings are recorded in the Bible equates to: "Thomas was right." My point is this. The Bible is a historical book, as well as an instruction manual from Almighty God to all humanity. Because it is a historical book, it reports events and conversations of people. For instance, the bad behavior of the Jewish religious leaders and other characters are reported in the Bible. Are you going to argue that their wrongdoing was actually right, simply because it is part of Biblical history? Now apply that to Thomas who was so lacking in faith that he would not even believe the other disciples who told them Jesus had been resurrected from the dead. Even if one were to argue that Thomas really thought Jesus was Jehovah, it does not matter what Thomas thought because the context of John 20:28 tells us Jesus could not be in a trinity with Jehovah and that Jesus is not also Jehovah. John 20:1-3 and 9 says Jesus died, while the Trinity dogma says Jesus the Son is CO-ETERNAL with Jehovah.
Christendom's trinity, written in Article I of The Catholic Faith, is defined as follows:"There is but one living and true God, everlasting, without body, parts, or passions; of infinite power, wisdom, and goodness; the maker and preserver of all things both visible and indivisible. And in unity of this Godhead there be THREE PERSONS, of ONE substance, power, and ETERNITY; the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost." http://www.sevenwholedays.org/2011/03/10/article-i/ http://mb-soft.com/believe/txc/thirtyni.htm An eternal person cannot die. Being dead for just one minute results in an end to someone's claim to eternity. Jesus was dead for three days.
DEFINITION OF "ETERNAL": Eternal means not having a beginning or an end.http://www.yourdictionary.com/eternal "That people may know that you, whose name is JEHOVAH, you alone are the Most High over all the earth." (Psalms 83:18)
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Alter2Ego Member (Idle past 3850 days) Posts: 72 From: Los Angeles, California Joined: |
quote: ALTER2EGO -to- CATHOLIC SCIENTIST:Obviously, I am not missing anything because I mentioned previously that when Thomas referred to Jesus as "My Lord and my God" at John 20:28, Jesus had only recently been resurrected from the dead. That's "resurrected" as "no longer dead." However, the fact that Jesus Christ did indeed die disqualifies him from being eternal. An eternal person cannot die for even a minute. By definition, an eternal person must exist through all time. "without beginning or end; existing through all time; everlasting" (Source: Webster's New World College Dictionary)
QUESTION #1 to CATHOLIC SCIENTIST:: During the three days of Jesus Christ's death, are you saying he was actually still in existence as a living being? "That people may know that you, whose name is JEHOVAH, you alone are the Most High over all the earth." (Psalms 83:18)
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Alter2Ego Member (Idle past 3850 days) Posts: 72 From: Los Angeles, California Joined: |
quote: ALTER2EGO -to- PURPLEDAWN:For someone who claims to not believe in the Trinity, you are sure doing a good demonstration of being a Trinity apologist. Now you have Jesus being the "supreme being." In reality, there are no scriptures in the Bible that describe him as such. The scriptures refer to Jesus Christ as the "Son of God," as the "Messiah," as the "Mediator," etc. But never is Jesus referred to as the supreme being, because the only supreme being in existence is Almighty God Jehovah. FYI: I gave two different definitions of "eternal" in this thread. If you would like to see them, read the very last post on Page 14 of this thread, as well as the very first post on Page 15 of this thread. Read both of the aforementioned posts a few times if you have to, and then reflect on what you've read. Maybe then it will sink in. "That people may know that you, whose name is JEHOVAH, you alone are the Most High over all the earth." (Psalms 83:18)
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Alter2Ego Member (Idle past 3850 days) Posts: 72 From: Los Angeles, California Joined: |
quote: ALTER2EGO -to- PURPLEDAWN:I never said that. You are getting me mixed up with somebody else. I simply stated that an eternal person cannot die. That part about "the human form died and the eternal being continued" is something you read in somebody else's post and not mine. "That people may know that you, whose name is JEHOVAH, you alone are the Most High over all the earth." (Psalms 83:18)
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Alter2Ego Member (Idle past 3850 days) Posts: 72 From: Los Angeles, California Joined: |
quote:ALTER2EGO -to- PURPLEDAWN: You have been told several times that an eternal person cannot die aka their life cannot end. Jesus' life ended for the entire three days that he was dead, and Jehovah had to resurrect him from the dead aka bring him back to life. DEFINITION OF "ETERNAL":"Eternal means not having a beginning or an end." http://www.yourdictionary.com/eternal "without beginning or end; existing through all time; everlasting" (Source: Webster's New World College Dictionary)
QUESTION #1 to PURPLEDAWN:: During the three days that the Bible says Jesus was dead, are you saying he was actually still in existence as a living being aka the Bible is lying?
QUESTION #2 to PURPLEDAWN:: If Jesus was still in existence during the three days that the Bible says he was dead, why did Jehovah have to resurrect him on the third day of his being dead? In other words, are you saying Jehovah resurrected a living being?
quote:ALTER2EGO -to- PURPLEDAWN: So I say again, an eternal person cannot die and therefore, the fact that Jesus Christ died is evidence that he was not eternal from the get-go. "That people may know that you, whose name is JEHOVAH, you alone are the Most High over all the earth." (Psalms 83:18)
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Alter2Ego Member (Idle past 3850 days) Posts: 72 From: Los Angeles, California Joined: |
quote:ALTER2EGO -to- PURPLEDAWN: Right. That's what you keep doing: wash, rinse, and repeat. You've asked me the same question repeatedly, and I keep giving you the same answer, along with definitions from the dictionary as to the meaning of the word "eternal." DEFINITION OF "ETERNAL": "Eternal means not having a beginning or an end."http://www.yourdictionary.com/eternal QUESTION #3 to PURPLE DAWN: The dictionary says one who is eternal can have no end to his/her life. Was Jesus alive or did his life end during the three days the Bible says he was dead? YES or NO?
DEFINITION OF "ETERNAL": "without beginning or end; existing through all time; everlasting" (Source: Webster's New World College Dictionary)
QUESTION #4 to PURPLE DAWN: The dictionary says one who is eternal must exist through all time. Did Jesus continue to exist as a living being during the three days that the Bible says he was dead? YES or NO? Just so you know, if you come back with the same wash, rinse, and repeat about Jesus being eternal and that therefore the rules of eternity do not apply to him, you will get the same response from me, as demonstrated above."That people may know that you, whose name is JEHOVAH, you alone are the Most High over all the earth." (Psalms 83:18)
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Alter2Ego Member (Idle past 3850 days) Posts: 72 From: Los Angeles, California Joined: |
quote:ALTER2EGO -to- CATHOLIC SCIENTIST: That's exactly why I ignored your previous explanation, because it defies logic. QUESTION #2 to CATHOLIC SCIENTIST: Is death the opposite of life? YES or NO?"That people may know that you, whose name is JEHOVAH, you alone are the Most High over all the earth." (Psalms 83:18)
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Alter2Ego Member (Idle past 3850 days) Posts: 72 From: Los Angeles, California Joined: |
quote:QUESTION #3 to CATHOLIC SCIENTIST: So you're telling me that the Bible was lying when it said Jesus died? TRUE or FALSE? FYI: There are no scriptures in the Judeo-Christian Bible that say Jesus made proclamations to imprisoned spirits during the three days he was dead. If you can find such a scripture, please quote it for the benefit of the forum and show us where it says Jesus was dead when he was making the proclamations. The verse of scripture you previously posted during your fallacious claim that Jesus was dead when he was preaching to imprisoned spirits is not saying that at all. I ignored you the first time when you posted it, because I figured you were not interested in the context (the surrounding words, verses, or chapters). But since you insist that I respond (because you are complaining that I am ignoring you), I will respond for the time being. If you post the verse again, be prepared to be shown the context this time around."That people may know that you, whose name is JEHOVAH, you alone are the Most High over all the earth." (Psalms 83:18)
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Alter2Ego Member (Idle past 3850 days) Posts: 72 From: Los Angeles, California Joined: |
quote:ALTER2EGO -to- RINGO: Below are the two definitions of "eternal" that I have posted several times in this thread. Keep your eyes on the words bolded in light green. The answer the questions that follow. DEFINITION OF "ETERNAL": Eternal means not having a beginning or an end.http://www.yourdictionary.com/eternal DEFINITION OF "ETERNAL": "without beginning or end; existing through all time; everlasting" (Source: Webster's New World College Dictionary) QUESTION #1 to RINGO: If a dead body exists, does that mean the person is still alive? YES or NO? QUESTION #2 to RINGO: By definition, an eternal person can never die because an eternal person must exist through all time. During the three days that Jesus was dead, did he continue to exist as a living being? YES or NO? QUESTION #3 to RINGO: If someone died and then "comes back to life," is it not true that they still died and therefore, by default, they could not have been eternal because if they were, they never would have died from the get-go? TRUE or FALSE?"That people may know that you, whose name is JEHOVAH, you alone are the Most High over all the earth." (Psalms 83:18)
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Alter2Ego Member (Idle past 3850 days) Posts: 72 From: Los Angeles, California Joined: |
quote:ALTER2EGO -to- RINGO: Below is a scriptural quotation and the definition of "dead," followed by four questions. Keep your eyes on the words bolded in light green throughout this post. "{3} For I handed on to you, among the first things, that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures; {4} and that he was buried, yes, that he has been raised up the third day according to the Scriptures;" (1 Corinthians 15:3-4)
quote:http://www.yourdictionary.com/dead QUESTION #4 to RINGO: The Bible clearly states at 1 Corinthians 15:3-4 that Jesus was dead, and not only dead, but dead for three days. TRUE or FALSE? QUESTION #5 to RINGO: The dictionary defines death as "A person who has passed away and . . . is no longer alive." Are you still "fuzzy" about whether or not Jesus Christ was really and truly dead? YES or NO? DEFINITION OF "ETERNAL": "without beginning or end; existing through all time; everlasting" (Source: Webster's New World College Dictionary) QUESTION #6 to RINGO: The definition of "eternal" is that the individual must exist [as a living being] through all time. Was Jesus, as a living being, in existence during the three days the Bible says he was dead? YES or NO? QUESTION #7 to RINGO: If Jesus was not really dead and was instantly alive in the spirit, as some in this forum are claiming, why did he have to be resurrected from the dead after the three days? In other words, did Jehovah resurrect a living person who was already alive in the spirit? YES or NO?"That people may know that you, whose name is JEHOVAH, you alone are the Most High over all the earth." (Psalms 83:18)
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Alter2Ego Member (Idle past 3850 days) Posts: 72 From: Los Angeles, California Joined: |
quote:ALTER2EGO to RINGO: I asked you eight (8) questions thus far, all of which you evaded. The answers to the questions are "YES" and "NO" and "TRUE" or "FALSE" in some instances. One of the questions I last asked you is simple: "The Bible clearly states at 1 Corinthians 15:3-4 that Jesus was dead, and not only dead, but dead for three days. TRUE or FALSE?" I did not ask you if you agree with the Bible. I asked you if that's what the Bible says happened. You have seen me at work on this forum long enough to know by now that I ask people viewpoint questions based upon what I specifically quote from the Bible or based upon dictionary definitions. So you knew what you were getting into when you wrote me the very first message. Since you now want to play the game of Artful Dodger, please avoid writing to me if you are not willing to answer questions pertaining to our discussions. If you write me anything else, I will not reply. Edited by Alter2Ego, : No reason given."That people may know that you, whose name is JEHOVAH, you alone are the Most High over all the earth." (Psalms 83:18)
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Alter2Ego Member (Idle past 3850 days) Posts: 72 From: Los Angeles, California Joined: |
quote:ALTER2EGO -to- CATHOLIC SCIENTIST: Since the verse is "still sitting there" in your previous post, you should have no trouble quoting it again, and this time, bolding the words that indicate: "Jesus was alive in the spirit and preaching to imprisoned spirits during the three days the Bible says he was dead." When do you intend to do that? "That people may know that you, whose name is JEHOVAH, you alone are the Most High over all the earth." (Psalms 83:18)
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Alter2Ego Member (Idle past 3850 days) Posts: 72 From: Los Angeles, California Joined: |
ALTER2EGO —to- EVERYONE:
The word "eternal" refers to anyone or anything that does not have a beginning or an end. Since I am presently discussing eternal life, and that's "life" as in LIVING BEINGS and specifically discussing Jesus Christ's mortality, I therefore applied the definition of the word "eternal" to LIVING BEINGS when I posed a question to several individuals in this thread, as follows: quote:ALTER2EGO to EVERYONE: As you can see, several skeptics have now shown up in this thread playing semantics by claiming that I am adding to the definition of "eternal" simply because I applied the word "eternal" to LIVING BEINGS. Mind you, these individuals know perfectly well that the discussion is about whether or not Jesus Christ--a LIVING BEING--is eternal. Everyone who has been following this thread and seen what I posted about Jesus Christ's death should have been able to figure out by now that I am specifically discussing LIVING BEINGS. So my question #2 above is not an attempt at adding to the definition of "eternal" but, rather, it is an application of the definition "eternal" to what is being discussed here, namely, LIVING BEINGS. Recall that I raised the issue of Jesus Christ not being eternal after a Trinitarian used John 20:28 as proof of a 3-prong god. There, Thomas referred to the recently resurrected from the dead Jesus Christ as: "My Lord and my God." I pointed the Trinitarian to the context of John 20:28 where it states at John 20:1-3 and 9 that Jesus Christ died. Therefore, even if Thomas thought Jesus was also Jehovah in trinity, the context debunks that argument because eternal persons cannot die. The pagan-inspired Trinity dogma contradicts the Bible by saying the Son (Jesus Christ) is CO-ETERNAL with Jehovah, as follows:
Christendom's trinity, written in Article I of The Catholic Faith, is defined as follows:"There is but one living and true God, everlasting, without body, parts, or passions; of infinite power, wisdom, and goodness; the maker and preserver of all things both visible and indivisible. And in unity of this Godhead there be THREE PERSONS, of ONE substance, power, and ETERNITY; the Father, the SON, and the Holy Ghost." http://www.sevenwholedays.org/2011/03/10/article-i/ http://mb-soft.com/believe/txc/thirtyni.htm By definition, an eternal LIVING BEING cannot have a beginning or an end and must exist through all time as a LIVING BEING. Jesus did not exist as a LIVING BEING for three days. Therefore, he did not exist as a LIVING BEING "through all time." By paying attention to the context of scriptures in the Judeo-Christian Bible, honest-hearted ones are able to see that the trinity dogma that was dreamed up by the Christianized Romans (who later called themselves Roman Catholics) is a false religious teaching that was debunked by Jesus Christ's death. Edited by Alter2Ego, : No reason given."That people may know that you, whose name is JEHOVAH, you alone are the Most High over all the earth." (Psalms 83:18)
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Alter2Ego Member (Idle past 3850 days) Posts: 72 From: Los Angeles, California Joined: |
quote:ALTER2EGO -to- CATHOLIC SCIENTIST: Of course it's not important to your argument, being that you know full well the verses at 1 Peter 3:18-19 don't say a thing resembling your fallacious claim that, to summarize: "Jesus was alive in the spirit and preaching to imprisoned spirits during the three days the Bible says he was dead." Whenever I ask people to prove what's not in the Bible, they usually evade. That's what you're doing. All of a sudden, it's "not important to [your] argument" to show the forum where 1 Peter 3:18-19 indicates Jesus was preaching when he was supposed to be dead. "That people may know that you, whose name is JEHOVAH, you alone are the Most High over all the earth." (Psalms 83:18)
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Alter2Ego Member (Idle past 3850 days) Posts: 72 From: Los Angeles, California Joined: |
quote: ALTER2EGO -to- CATHOLIC SCIENTIST:I'm sure the people down at Webster's Dictionary, whose definition of "eternal" I used in this thread, would like to hear your take on what eternal beings can do--namely, they can die and come back to life whenever they have a mind to do so. Be sure and tell them that bit about: At no point did it have a beginning or an end of its existence, even though its time as a living being had both a beginning or an end." "That people may know that you, whose name is JEHOVAH, you alone are the Most High over all the earth." (Psalms 83:18)
|
|
|
Do Nothing Button
Copyright 2001-2023 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved
Version 4.2
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2024