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Author | Topic: Why the Flood Never Happened | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Pollux Member Posts: 303 Joined: |
After re-reading your post, you don't think that the plates move at a few inches per DAY do you?
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1475 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
I guess you are questioning my calculations? It's quite simple. 4300 years to travel 3000 miles gets the result I got. And 20 feet per day is merely the starting speed, after which it continuously slows down to its present few inches a year. Twenty feet a day is ten feet on either side of the Atlantic ridge by the way so that the movement is in both directions.
By Abraham's time the speed would have slowed some already, and he was in the Middle East so why would earthquakes from the Atlantic area be a problem?
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1475 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
Sorry, no, I know it's per year.
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Dr Adequate Member (Idle past 315 days) Posts: 16113 Joined:
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There's nothing new in any of that, RAZD, sorry. Well no, there isn't. The sun rises in the East, Queen Anne is dead, creationists are wrong about everything ... it's not so much a newsflash as an eternal verity.
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Dr Adequate Member (Idle past 315 days) Posts: 16113 Joined:
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You require a lot of time and research of me. This is why I try to avoid side issues, especially since I think the overview I've been presenting, which I've researched over many years ... You know, over the course of "many years" you might have found something out about the Grand Canyon other than that many of the layers are kinda horizontal. "Many years" research you've put in, forsooth, and yet things like the sedimentology of the rocks and the course of the Colorado River are "side issues" that you haven't gotten around to yet? What exactly have you been doing during these "many years"? Do tell.
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Pollux Member Posts: 303 Joined:
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Tectonic plate movement affects the whole globe, not just the Atlantic. So you have to slow the movement before there are a lot of people to notice, because there is nothing to suggest that there is a marked difference in earthquake frequency in recorded history. 20 feet per day with it already slowed by Abe's time means you still need feet per day and he would have noticed.
The seamount chains I have mentioned in the other thread have to be built by then also so that is why I say you have to consider the vulcanism your scenario produces. Do you understand how geologic ages are determined?
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roxrkool Member (Idle past 1020 days) Posts: 1497 From: Nevada Joined:
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Faith, I know I have asked this before and I'm sure others have as well, but has it ever occurred to you to actually read some books on geology? As in textbooks? As in maybe even take a class or two?
Reading this post (in addition to the other thousands previous to this one)... is, to borrow one of your words, excruciatingly insulting. Not to only geologists in general, but to any rational and scientifically-literate person. The hubris you display is staggering, to say the least. I honestly don't know whether to applaud your misplaced self-confidence or feel sorry for you. Seriously. Despite 13,000+ posts on this forum and an apparent high intellect, you have apparently learned nothing as you continue to presumptuously proclaim to all who will listen that because geology is a historical science, your guess is as good as everyone else's, including those who spend the majority of their lives actually looking at rocks. You proclaim that because we cannot visit the mantle or go back in time to see just how the rocks formed, there is no way to support or track causality in the geologic record. And this somehow gives you the right to posit a multitude of ignorant, inexperienced, and preposterous ramblings that even the most incompetent geologist can dispel. With this, you will undoubtedly disagree, but that has more to do with your own inability to consider anything outside your abridged world view than the reality of the situation. Geology is an interpretive, verifiable science, and we do this by examining the rocks in detail through geochemical, textural, mineralogical, geophysical analyses, by examining and attempting to understand the geometry of the lithologic and structural relationships, and attempting to understand the role of configuration in the final result. When it comes to a geologic puzzle we'd like to solve, we don't just sit at our computers looking at pictures of rock outcrops and offering up armchair postulates. We actually go out into the field, map the rocks, the faults, the alteration types and assemblages, the fossil assemblages, and we also collect rock samples for geochemical and petrographic analyses. The minerals present in the rocks have formed and are stable under very specific conditions, therefore assemblages of minerals, by default, provide an even better resolution of the conditions under which the rocks formed. The relationships between the rocks and the faults give us relative timing of the events of their formation. Every piece of evidence we collect (and we collect a LOT) offers up even more clues to aid in our interpretations, and every subsequent study or analysis either supports or refutes the working hypothesis. We test these hypotheses by predicting where we'll find the same rocks, alterations, fossils. You, on the other hand, make many, very ignorant, comments and never bother to back them up with any sort of analysis. Granted you are in no position to do so from your keyboard, but that's even more reason to stop and think about what exactly it is you are writing. Instead, you stick your fingers in your ears screaming, "blah, blah, blah" whenever anyone presents anything to the contrary, and then soldier on as if no one has said a thing. There is nothing respectable about that. Edited by roxrkool, : No reason given.
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1475 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
I'm sure it doesn't make any sense to you, but to make the points I want to make on this thread doesn't need sophisticated knowledge of geology, and if I had such knowledge I wouldn't be any less insulting because the point is very simple: it's crazy to interpret the strata in terms of time periods of millions of years. Very insulting of course. And I don't think all your detailed work REALLY supports this conclusion either. I think I've made my case and that nobody has bothered to follow the logic of it. Your post doesn't bother, that's for sure, it's just a long ad hominem rant.
And besides, I'd WAY rather insult the lot of you than insult God, as all of you do every day with your Old Earth and evolution. I'd rather not insult anyone though, but I do think Old Earth theory is STUPID, no matter how you piece it together from everyday observations, and I think it's OBVIOUS and that if people who are deep into the science of it can't see beyond their preconceptions I would hope that nonscientific people could recognize it. Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
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Dr Adequate Member (Idle past 315 days) Posts: 16113 Joined:
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To make the points I want to make on this thread doesn't need sophisticated knowledge of geology ... Though the word "sophisticated" is superfluous, your sentiment is basically correct.
I think I've made my case and that nobody has bothered to follow the logic of it. Oh, I think I did. It went something like this. It's ridiculous to think that real processes that we can see depositing sediment now could possibly have deposited sediment in exactly the same way in the past. Also, even if that did happen, it wouldn't explain the not-really-facts that Faith has made up in her head, which can easily be disproved by a cursory glance at the actual rocks. Therefore geology should be explained by magic, though not, perish the thought, explained in any detail. Also, any evidence that completely proves Faith wrong should be ignored because she doesn't have time to think about it --- why, it took her years of research to find out that some of the layers in the Grand Canyon are more or less horizontal, and her brain still hasn't quite recovered from the mighty effort. Oh, and in any case, she isn't Faith, she's God. Have I missed anything? Ah yes, of course. It's impossible to find out anything about the past by looking at the evidence, and the evidence proves that the Flood happened. In the past. Though describing this as "logic" seems pitching it a little high when the English language contains such useful words as bunkum, hogwash, baloney, flapdoodle, hooey, and crap. Edited by Dr Adequate, : No reason given.
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Tanypteryx Member Posts: 4451 From: Oregon, USA Joined: Member Rating: 5.5
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There is nothing respectable about that. Rox, this sums up Faith's whole participation at EvC. There is nothing respectable about any of it. I think your post eloquently describes what scientific study actually means and what a sham it is when Faith calls what she does as "study". Ironically, she is a great ambassador for science and education by her example of intellectual consequences of blind faith and the worship of ignorance.What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy
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RAZD Member (Idle past 1436 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined:
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There's nothing new in any of that, RAZD, sorry. But how do you explain it Faith?
quote: Have you ever done that Faith? When you say layers were deposited by the flood and those layers do not show these characteristics then you have some explaining to do. These are Christians telling you that your view of the GC is wrong, and giving you evidence to back it up. After a brief discussion of lake varves they conclude with this:
quote: Is that your god Faith? a faker of evidence? Is that how you explain the speleothems? Note that mindspawn appears to have abandoned the Great debate: radiocarbon dating, Mindspawn and Coyote/RAZD debate on age counting systems at about this level of evidence, as he is running out of excuses to jigger each independent method and still end up with the appearance of correlation with high degrees of consilience. Enjoy Edited by RAZD, : added Edited by RAZD, : linkby our ability to understand Rebel American Zen Deist ... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ... to share. Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)
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Percy Member Posts: 22508 From: New Hampshire Joined: Member Rating: 5.4
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Hi RoxRKool,
We all have people in our lives who inexplicably believe impossible things in contradiction to all evidence, common sense and even simple logic. Can anyone out there claim success in persuading these people away from their ideas? I know the success rate is greater than 0%, but I bet it's not by much. Should it be any different with Faith? So if persuading Faith to accept modern geology isn't a realistic goal, what is? I think we've already done it over and over and over again by describing (often in great detail) how Faith's conceptions of geological history stand in contradiction to the evidence and sometimes even of physical laws. It is for me as I expect it is for others both a mystery and a source of great frustration how we can walk Faith right up to the evidence that shows she's wrong and have her time after time declare that our interpretations are impossible and make no sense. Lately she's gone even further and declared that our simple deductions from the evidence are bizarre and that we must be suffering hallucinations. Even concepts as simple as that the heaviest sediment must fall out first (which RAZD recently repeated) are discarded as if nonsensical. While Faith's behavior is a puzzlement, she's not alone. Mindspawn exhibits the same behavior, as did Buzsaw. I think all we can do is continue presenting the scientific story, because it has great value for those who are able to follow evidence to logical conclusions even when it might contradict what they already believe. --Percy
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jar Member (Idle past 425 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined:
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I miss Ray.
Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
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JonF Member (Idle past 199 days) Posts: 6174 Joined:
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And 20 feet per day is merely the starting speed No, you calculated it as the average speed. If it was ever slower, it must also have been much higher in order to get that average.
By Abraham's time the speed would have slowed some already, and he was in the Middle East so why would earthquakes from the Atlantic area be a problem? Have you ever tried , ya know, thinking rather than just spewing? Where did the plates go during this process? If Atlantic was opening up at that fantastic rate, the other plates must have been moving at comparable rates, or else the European plate would have nowhere to go. Causing earthquakes at plate boundaries and in mountain building areas all overt the world, just as we see today, but at rates many orders of magnitude more often and more powerful than we see today. Note the circled area. Ever hear of people living in that vicinity? Right between two mountain-building areas?
Edited by JonF, : No reason given.
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Pollux Member Posts: 303 Joined: |
I think the main reason for continuing to engage with Faith, Mindspawn et al is for people such as I was, those who are seeking answers and who will appreciate being shown facts. (Not that I no longer seek answers to anything, but my questions on age of Earth issues are pretty well settled).
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