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Author Topic:   Who hurts the US Healthcare system worse?
Taq
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Posts: 10085
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 5.1


(2)
Message 270 of 316 (717070)
01-23-2014 6:23 PM
Reply to: Message 244 by RAZD
01-20-2014 6:11 PM


Re: How to Debate on a Forum
Would you rather be treated by a doctor that wants to doctor or one that wants to make money?
Take excess profits out of the picture and you end up with doctors that want to doctor.
Curiously I think that would be an improvement.
There is always going to be a fine balancing act. A strong monetary incentive can attract more talent, for example. Also, you could offer lower wages but decreased hours. This would attract more family-minded candidates.
I think there is one ethos that socialized medicine has that the US profit driven system lacks. In socialized medicine you are also responsible to the public in a way that US doctors aren't. If you price gouge in the US, that's just capitalism. If you price gouge in the UK, you are going against the public good since those are public tax dollars you are taking.
I just think there is a sense of responsibility that is lacking in the US healthcare system. I am not saying that doctors are not looking out for the well being of patients. What I am saying is that they don't care as much about the economic impacts that their business has on the US economy and on families.

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Taq
Member
Posts: 10085
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 5.1


(1)
Message 296 of 316 (717545)
01-28-2014 6:04 PM
Reply to: Message 289 by New Cat's Eye
01-27-2014 11:29 AM


Re: Good is related to ability,
Part of the problem with for-profit healthcare, is that as a consumer you often don't have a choice in your demand. That is, if you don't buy what they are selling you, then you could die. It hard to find good competition when the clock is ticking and you really really need what they are selling.
To put it another way, if you have a product that the public, literally, can not live without, why would you ever sacrifice profits in order to make sure it is affordable to everyone?
The laws of capitalism would say that you need to increase what you charge in order to maximize profits, not availability. If maximizing profits means out-pricing 10% of the public, then that is what you do, and that is exactly where we ended up in this country.
I don't think its something that can work on a national level here in the U.S. Not just because of the system, itself, but because the consumers can't handle it. Too often people don't go to the doctor and act like a customer, they see the doctor as some kind of infallible authority. And the People don't seem to want to take matters into their own hands.
The rampant dogma against socialism on the political right is what is preventing us from getting universal, single payer healthcare.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 289 by New Cat's Eye, posted 01-27-2014 11:29 AM New Cat's Eye has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 298 by New Cat's Eye, posted 01-29-2014 9:59 AM Taq has replied

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 10085
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 5.1


Message 300 of 316 (717612)
01-29-2014 3:52 PM
Reply to: Message 298 by New Cat's Eye
01-29-2014 9:59 AM


Re: Good is related to ability,
Just curious, is a single-payer system literally a single payer, or does it allow for others to act as payers as well?
It means that there is a public agency that everyone qualifies to join by being a citizen.
Like, I have some money and I know a doctor, would I be able to give him my money for his service under single payer system? Or would it have to come from the single-payer?
It is the same as now. If your insurance pays a certain amount, there is nothing stopping you from paying the doctor more, if you want to. Perhaps a better comparison would be Medicare supplemental insurance that you can buy from private carriers. You can still buy private insurance in the UK to supplement any perceived gaps in the NHS coverage, if I remember correctly.

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Taq
Member
Posts: 10085
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 5.1


Message 303 of 316 (717771)
01-31-2014 4:32 PM
Reply to: Message 302 by Theodoric
01-30-2014 10:17 AM


Re: ACA success
Looks like the ACA is more and more successful.
The exchanges seem to be already providing lower cost health insurance. This may be a very positive and large step toward single payer.
The biggest improvement is that no one can be denied coverage, and there is a cap on how much health insurance companies can charge. Before the ACA, we had a situation where people who needed health care the most were the least likely to have access to health care.
This has been balanced out by requiring everyone to purchase health insurance, including those that were least likely to purchase insurance in the past.
The ACA did succeed on these two major fronts: get everyone covered, and have everyone paying into it. The real question now is why do we need a middle man?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 302 by Theodoric, posted 01-30-2014 10:17 AM Theodoric has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 304 by Theodoric, posted 01-31-2014 4:36 PM Taq has not replied
 Message 305 by dronestar, posted 01-31-2014 4:59 PM Taq has replied

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 10085
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 5.1


Message 313 of 316 (718237)
02-05-2014 6:07 PM
Reply to: Message 305 by dronestar
01-31-2014 4:59 PM


Re: ACA success
Tragically, I don't think ANYone is expecting 100% participation in the ACA. I read that america will still have millions who are not covered.
I did use a misguided and sweeping generalization. It is true that there will still be some that slip through the system, but the vast majority who were not covered before are now covered.
Increasing medicare to all ages would guarantee 100% coverage.
It would also cause the Koch brothers' heads to explode, which may actually be a good thing.

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 Message 305 by dronestar, posted 01-31-2014 4:59 PM dronestar has not replied

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 10085
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 5.1


Message 316 of 316 (718460)
02-06-2014 6:30 PM
Reply to: Message 315 by dronestar
02-06-2014 4:08 PM


Re: Summary
Both the republican and democrat leaders have shown repeatedly and clearly they are not interested. I keep reminding people that Obama made back door deals with the health insurance and pharmaceutical companies over the people's best interests. But the people keep voting the same 90+% back into office. There seems to be an amazingly simple and easy solution to the VOTERS, yet . . .
I don't know which is worse, a democrat who claims that they are for socialized healthcare but won't propose a law because of a lack of public support, or a Republican who says that they will never vote for any socialized healthcare no matter how much support there is for it.
The end result is the same.
Edited by Taq, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 315 by dronestar, posted 02-06-2014 4:08 PM dronestar has not replied

  
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