|
Register | Sign In |
|
QuickSearch
Thread ▼ Details |
|
Thread Info
|
|
|
Author | Topic: Two types of science | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
NoNukes Inactive Member
|
From the wikipedia article:
SN 2014J - Wikipedia
quote: I thought I would use this example to highlight the inanity of some of the arguments presented here. Presumably this discovery avoids the controversy surrounding the US constitution due to the fact that it was discovered by college students in London who can be demonstrated to have no motive whatsoever to find a distant super nova.
quote: Yet, despite their lack of motive, this particular stellar event was discovered in a galaxy that is over one million light years away. Given that the super nova itself is a type 1A, measurements of the super nova itself will provide an independent determination of the distance to the Messier 82 galaxy. On the other hand, what can we say of any American scientist that studies this phenomenon. That they are not doing science, but atheism? That they are going against the founding fathers who were all united in opinion and motivation? That the London scientists are just puppets of the US based National Center for Science Education? Get rid of the EPA?Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846) I believe that a scientist looking at nonscientific problems is just as dumb as the next guy.Richard P. Feynman If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. Frederick Douglass
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Dr Adequate Member (Idle past 315 days) Posts: 16113 Joined: |
Exploding stars are caused by too many government regulations, the students are puppets of King George III, their results are unfalsifiable because no-one's proved them false, and in any case they can't tell us what the supernova smells like.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
NoNukes Inactive Member |
useless rant removed
Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given. Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given. Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given.Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846) I have never met a man so ignorant that I couldn't learn something from him. Galileo Galilei If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. Frederick Douglass
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
saab93f Member (Idle past 1425 days) Posts: 265 From: Finland Joined:
|
I'm saying that if something is observable by only one human sense, and ALSO involves millions of years in the past, hundreds of light-years away, or conflicts with the basics of Christianity or U.S. foundings, then it may become too vague to be thoroughly enough analyzed by the scientific method. Can we foreigners still do "the other kind" of science or do the religious or US constitutional restrictions apply?Is it not silly to claim that we could not use observations today as a tool to decipher the past? The Oklo natural fission reactor "proves" that the radioactive decay has remained constant for at least 2 billion years - we can safely assume that the science explaining radioactivity is strong and valid though we don't see the atoms splitting.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
NoNukes Inactive Member
|
Can we foreigners still do "the other kind" of science or do the religious or US constitutional restrictions apply? Note the final 'or' clause in Marc9000's statement. Marc9000 says that if it conflicts with his beliefs then it may become too vague for you to use the scientific method. So, no you probably cannot do science in Finland until Marc gets some new beliefs. Conflicting with U.S. foundings or being in deep space, or not being able to use your sense of smell would be independent reasons not to pursue a scientific investigation. Besides, how many senses can you use to detect radioactive decay? Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given.Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846) I have never met a man so ignorant that I couldn't learn something from him. Galileo Galilei If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. Frederick Douglass
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
saab93f Member (Idle past 1425 days) Posts: 265 From: Finland Joined:
|
Marc9000 says that if it conflicts with his beliefs then it may become too vague for you to use the scientific method. So, no you probably cannot do science in Finland until Marc gets some new beliefs. Conflicting with U.S. foundings or being in deep space, or not being able to use your sense of smell would be independent reasons not to pursue a scientific investigation.
Thanks NN - that is quite unfortunate but clearer now. There are several fields of science in which my countrymen have been in the forefront but naturally all that has to stop now. The most recent discovery in which Finnish scientists were involved in was that of "monopolar" magnetic particle - probably gay or atheistic or liberal.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Dr Adequate Member (Idle past 315 days) Posts: 16113 Joined:
|
Can we foreigners still do "the other kind" of science or do the religious or US constitutional restrictions apply? You can do un-American science, just don't try to smuggle it into the U.S, they have special conservative dogs that can sniff out facts in your luggage.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Coyote Member (Idle past 2137 days) Posts: 6117 Joined: |
You can do un-American science, just don't try to smuggle it into the U.S, they have special conservative dogs that can sniff out facts in your luggage.
You mean "fundamentalist" dogs, not "conservative" dogs. There are a lot of conservatives who support science, so don't lump us all in with the fundamentalists.Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge. Belief gets in the way of learning--Robert A. Heinlein How can I possibly put a new idea into your heads, if I do not first remove your delusions?--Robert A. Heinlein It's not what we don't know that hurts, it's what we know that ain't so--Will Rogers If I am entitled to something, someone else is obliged to pay--Jerry Pournelle If a religion's teachings are true, then it should have nothing to fear from science...--dwise1 "Multiculturalism" does not include the American culture. That is what it is against.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
subbie Member (Idle past 1285 days) Posts: 3509 Joined:
|
Coyote writes: There are a lot of conservatives who support science, so don't lump us all in with the fundamentalists. By "a lot," are you talking absolute numbers or percentage? Either way, do you have any evidence so support your claim? You may need to define the terms "conservative" and "support science" as part of your proffer of proof.Ridicule is the only weapon which can be used against unintelligible propositions. -- Thomas Jefferson We see monsters where science shows us windmills. -- Phat It has always struck me as odd that fundies devote so much time and effort into trying to find a naturalistic explanation for their mythical flood, while looking for magical explanations for things that actually happened. -- Dr. Adequate Howling about evidence is a conversation stopper, and it never stops to think if the claim could possibly be true -- foreveryoung
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Coyote Member (Idle past 2137 days) Posts: 6117 Joined: |
...your proffer of proof https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VqomZQMZQCQReligious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge. Belief gets in the way of learning--Robert A. Heinlein How can I possibly put a new idea into your heads, if I do not first remove your delusions?--Robert A. Heinlein It's not what we don't know that hurts, it's what we know that ain't so--Will Rogers If I am entitled to something, someone else is obliged to pay--Jerry Pournelle If a religion's teachings are true, then it should have nothing to fear from science...--dwise1 "Multiculturalism" does not include the American culture. That is what it is against.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Dr Adequate Member (Idle past 315 days) Posts: 16113 Joined: |
You mean "fundamentalist" dogs, not "conservative" dogs. There are a lot of conservatives who support science, so don't lump us all in with the fundamentalists. While I see your point, I have checked this quite carefully and the fictitious dogs inhabiting my flight of fancy are in fact all conservatives. Get your own imaginary dogs.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
NoNukes Inactive Member |
The most recent discovery in which Finnish scientists were involved in was that of "monopolar" magnetic particle - probably gay or atheistic or liberal. Or one might choose not to pay Mr 9k any attention. Remember, this is the same guy who thinks that his water pipes freezing proves there is no human induced climate change.Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846) I have never met a man so ignorant that I couldn't learn something from him. Galileo Galilei If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. Frederick Douglass
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
subbie Member (Idle past 1285 days) Posts: 3509 Joined: |
Sorry, but given that conservatives as a group support creationism, deny climate change, and misrepresent the facts about contraceptives, abortion and AIDS for political purposes, your assurance that "a lot" of conservatives support science fails to convince me.
Ridicule is the only weapon which can be used against unintelligible propositions. -- Thomas Jefferson We see monsters where science shows us windmills. -- Phat It has always struck me as odd that fundies devote so much time and effort into trying to find a naturalistic explanation for their mythical flood, while looking for magical explanations for things that actually happened. -- Dr. Adequate Howling about evidence is a conversation stopper, and it never stops to think if the claim could possibly be true -- foreveryoung
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Coyote Member (Idle past 2137 days) Posts: 6117 Joined:
|
Sorry, but given that conservatives as a group support creationism, deny climate change, and misrepresent the facts about contraceptives, abortion and AIDS for political purposes, your assurance that "a lot" of conservatives support science fails to convince me. You paint with too broad a brush.Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge. Belief gets in the way of learning--Robert A. Heinlein How can I possibly put a new idea into your heads, if I do not first remove your delusions?--Robert A. Heinlein It's not what we don't know that hurts, it's what we know that ain't so--Will Rogers If I am entitled to something, someone else is obliged to pay--Jerry Pournelle If a religion's teachings are true, then it should have nothing to fear from science...--dwise1 "Multiculturalism" does not include the American culture. That is what it is against.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
subbie Member (Idle past 1285 days) Posts: 3509 Joined: |
I did not say all conservatives, I said conservatives as a group.
If what you say is correct, it won't be hard to name "a lot" of conservatives who don't support any of those things. Can you?Ridicule is the only weapon which can be used against unintelligible propositions. -- Thomas Jefferson We see monsters where science shows us windmills. -- Phat It has always struck me as odd that fundies devote so much time and effort into trying to find a naturalistic explanation for their mythical flood, while looking for magical explanations for things that actually happened. -- Dr. Adequate Howling about evidence is a conversation stopper, and it never stops to think if the claim could possibly be true -- foreveryoung
|
|
|
Do Nothing Button
Copyright 2001-2023 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved
Version 4.2
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2024