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Author | Topic: Religions are fairy tales for adults. Should we encourage them to grow up? | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1473 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
What I already said. You don't know what you are talking about.
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ringo Member (Idle past 441 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Faith writes:
What you already said does nothing to address the point. Your theology is made up. It isn't Biblical.
What I already said. You don't know what you are talking about.
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kbertsche Member (Idle past 2161 days) Posts: 1427 From: San Jose, CA, USA Joined: |
dwise1 writes:
And there's Origen who wanted to go off to be martyred with his father, but his mother prevented it by hiding his clothes. I don't doubt that many of the early Christian martyrs did not wish for their fates, but there were also those who did go out of their way to achieve martyrdom. And we still see that mania for martyrdom today. And it's so strong that they still go out of their way to make it happen.
"Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind." — Albert Einstein I am very astonished that the scientific picture of the real world around me is very deficient. It gives us a lot of factual information, puts all of our experience in a magnificently consistent order, but it is ghastly silent about all and sundry that is really near to our heart, that really matters to us. It cannot tell us a word about red and blue, bitter and sweet, physical pain and physical delight; it knows nothing of beautiful and ugly, good or bad, God and eternity. Science sometimes pretends to answer questions in these domains, but the answers are very often so silly that we are not inclined to take them seriously. — Erwin Schroedinger
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1473 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
Yes, it is Biblical, and again you don't know what you are talking about.
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1473 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
I missed this earlier post but it's raising the same objections others are raising so I guess I should try to answer it.
The SCOTUS ruling and the Christian casualties as a result of it are the beginning of the attack on Christianity which is only going to get worse and worse in this country. Which I think is what that wager was about with Dr. Adequate. We can wait for more examples but it's already begun. But how is this fundamentally any different than other issues that we may disagree with as Christians? What about an OBGYN nurse when the doctor she works for recommends abortion? What about bureaucrats who are asked to issue divorce papers for frivolous reasons? What about hotel staff who are expected to rent rooms to unmarried couples?I don't see that gay marriage is fundamentally any different than these other issues. The change that it made is quantitative, not qualitative. Apparently many don't see the difference, and with all these cases coming up I do keep thinking, Wow, we should be protesting a lot more stuff than we are. But there is nevertheless a difference. Gay marriage is not just a garden-variety sin, as I keep trying to say. It's not the sin of divorce or the sin of fornication or cohabitation without marriage. If I were a Christian OBGYN nurse I couldn't support a doctor's recommendation of abortion but I don't know how Christian nurses deal with such situations. Something to think about. HOWEVER, gay marriage isn't just a sin against a specific law of God, it's a rewriting of God's law, a complete alteration of God's ordinance of marriage. In the other cases we know the law and we know the sin against it. In this case we're changing the law to obscure the whole category of sin. It goes with redefining homosexuality as not a sin but a normal sexual variation. That's how I've been thinking of it anyway. I suppose if someone asked me to as a baker to make a cake to celebrate someone's occasion of adultery and have it sent to the hotel room I'd have a problem with that, but that isn't going to happen, is it? If you rewrote the Ten Commandments to say Adultery is Permitted, Stealing is Permitted, Murder is Permitted, that's more like what is implied in this new law of Gay Marriage though it's still not quite a perfect definition.
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PaulK Member Posts: 17828 Joined: Member Rating: 2.3
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quote: Of course,no law is being rewritten. It is simply that the law of the land disagrees with the rules of your religion. In that sense it is no different than the example you omitted -"Worship of other gods is permitted". Which is also the law of the land and has been since the Bill of Rights was passed. The real reason, of course, is that "Christians" wish to place themselves above the law, or the rules of employers. For many years they have gotten away with claiming privileges that the law does not permit. But this has been slowly changing and every loss is met by howls of outrage. Gay marriage is a victory for liberty and justice over the hate and lies of the "Christian" right. Of course they hate it! They threw everything they could at trying to stop it and still they failed. Well tough. They can just accept that they are not entitled to special privileges. That they don't get to override laws they don't like. And if they can't stand that the too bad for them.
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Dr Adequate Member (Idle past 314 days) Posts: 16113 Joined: |
HOWEVER, gay marriage isn't just a sin against a specific law of God, it's a rewriting of God's law, a complete alteration of God's ordinance of marriage. In the other cases we know the law and we know the sin against it. In this case we're changing the law to obscure the whole category of sin. It goes with redefining homosexuality as not a sin but a normal sexual variation. And this will lead to worse things: people working on Saturday, for example, without being stoned to death for it. The open practice of usury. One shudders to think.
If you rewrote the Ten Commandments to say Adultery is Permitted, Stealing is Permitted, Murder is Permitted, that's more like what is implied in this new law of Gay Marriage though it's still not quite a perfect definition. The law does say that adultery is permitted. Also not honoring your father and mother, the worship of false gods, the ownership of idols, taking the Lord's name in vain and working on Saturday, and you can covet what you like. It's already happened. And Christians make about as big a fuss over that as they did with that massive campaign to abolish usury which we all have heard so much about.
Gay marriage is not just a garden-variety sin, as I keep trying to say. It's not the sin of divorce or the sin of fornication or cohabitation without marriage. Ah yes, "garden-variety sins". While this term sees its fullest theological development in St. Augustine's treatise, Pfft, Adultery Ain't So Bad, the concept it has its origins in St. Paul's Epistle To Them There Faggots:
For even among those who love the LORD, even my brothers and sisters in Jesus Christ, there is fornication, and adultery, and breaking of the divine commandments with unholy acts.
And truly I say unto you, this is no biggie. I mean, who really careth about that stuff, be honest? It's not like being one of them there faggots. Or lezzers. Ew.
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PaulK Member Posts: 17828 Joined: Member Rating: 2.3 |
It's funny how recognising "demonic" Hinduism as a valid religion, and it's adherents as entitled to accommodations respecting their religious beliefs is acceptable. Apparently Faith sees worshipping demons is the "good" sort of sin that deserves public acceptance and support, unlike gay sex.
Edited by PaulK, : No reason given.
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jar Member (Idle past 423 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
PaulK writes: In that sense it is no different than the example you omitted -"Worship of other gods is permitted". Of course the Bible also says "worship of other gods is permitted" although only under proscribed conditions like common courtesy.Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
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ringo Member (Idle past 441 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Faith writes:
You have the same problem with the Bible as you have with science - you won't accept the evidence. I have shown what is Biblical and you deny it. And as usual, the only argument you have is denial.
Yes, it is Biblical, and again you don't know what you are talking about.
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Dr Adequate Member (Idle past 314 days) Posts: 16113 Joined:
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Hey, did you hear about the atheist mailman who refuses to deliver Christmas cards?
NO, ME NEITHER.
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1473 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
You have not shown what is biblical. As usual you just made up your own personal individual definition and try to impose it on two thousand years of theology to the contrary. You don't know what you are talking about but you don't care do you, anything to contradict the truth that's been hammered out for centuries. Just like jar. Make it all up but accuse US of doing that. What a shoddy bit of lying argument.
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ringo Member (Idle past 441 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined:
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Faith writes:
I've QUOTED the Bible. If the Bible isn't Biblical enough for you, what is?
You have not shown what is biblical. As usual you just made up your own personal individual definition... Faith writes:
Ah, two thousand years of second-hand commentary is more Biblical than the Bible, in your world.
... two thousand years of theology to the contrary.
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Omnivorous Member Posts: 3991 From: Adirondackia Joined: Member Rating: 6.9
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ringo writes: Ah, two thousand years of second-hand commentary is more Biblical than the Bible, in your world. It took 2000 years of theology--and the lust for secular power--to transform Christian communities into what you see today. Edited by Omnivorous, : -s"If you can keep your head while those around you are losing theirs, you can collect a lot of heads." Homo sum, humani nihil a me alienum puto.-Terence
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Porosity Member (Idle past 2123 days) Posts: 158 From: MT, USA Joined: |
Typical massive hypocrisy from a cherry picken evangelical.
News flash.. Abrahamic faiths don't get to define marriage and even if they did you're doing wrong! Here is real Biblical Marriage.
quote:Dear Christians who oppose gay marriage because it isn't "Biblical marriage"... Practice what you preach!
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