Something From Nothing?

the nothing you speak of is GOD ! ! !It is conscious and it created and sustains the universe by pure thought.Our perceptions of reality, absolute and personal are subjective thoughts and are part of the totality of GOD and the universe.nothing is perfect
in the space where nothing exists
will one find perfection
the perfect nothingSEEK

methodology...accept NOTHING as fact
question everything
determine your own truth
define your own realitybut understand your truth and reality exists within an absolute truth and ultimate reality of which we can only speculate about. Your truth may differ from another's but it makes it no less valid as ulitmately it is only your subjective perception and therefore an opinion.The unverse was created out of "nothing" and is still expanding into it. This pre bigbang "nothing" was/is only relative to itself due to it's singular nature. Instil the nothing with conscious thought and a will to create and for lack of a better WORD call it god. The process is the big bang and the rest is nature evolving which is aught but the will of GOD.The evidence lies at the frontier of the expanding universe where physical laws breakdown and where dark matter exists in it's purest form and where by energy transference it is converted to black holes and wormholes which then get distributed throughout the universe as tendrils rippling back thru and across spacetime.besides the onus is on you to disprove it for it is by faith alone that my universe is sustained. Faith in GOD as nothing and belief in GOD as something.contradictory ???no...complementarity actually. works for me

...if all possible universes have a central starting point it would be like each universe exists as a membrane of a bubble expanding outwards at different frequencies and wave lengths travelling thru the same medium of "nothingness"making it possible to occupy the same space and yet undetectable to each separate universe with black holes and wormholes leading to variously the edge, another place or another space.so if each resonant wave/bubble is recreating itself for every instant and allowing for chaos then minor permutations would ensure infinite variations...yeah ?how do you see the universe expanding and into what if not the singular "nothingness" ?I'm of the opinion that it is getting blown out from the middle and sucked out from the edge by a force which let's call GOD and because it's not expanding uniformly or constantly then the black holes and wormholes act as energy overload and dispersal mechanisms.It's hard to tell what I mean because as we all know words are such an inefficient means of describing concepts of higher meaning especially if you lack the formal training.eg...Given our current vocabulary and in light of events described in genesis in particular we all would have wrote things a little differently but still meaning the same thing.

so Beercules......substitute GOD or the much more mysterious sounding "the void" for "nothing" and you still get the same result...yeah ?aren't you just quibbling over semantics ?

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This doesn't mean matter is flying apart from an explosion into an empty void. Rather, the void itself expanding.

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So the big bang wasn't an explosion of matter into a void ? And the singularity existed as "the void" or was it surrounded by it, thereby making it non singular as there would then be two things, it and the medium it existed in

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but the universe is not embedded in any larger volume

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can you prove this ?surely an expansion needs a medium to expand intoI'm actually trying to follow a logical chain of simple events in laymans terms, apologies if it seems naive, but something from nothing can only happen if that nothing is actually a something or was surrounded by it...oops... now there goes my basic understanding of english out the window as wellplease enlighten me

space takes time to expand meaning distance is involved so doesn't that mean the possibility exists that it does have an edge and a centre and a medium which it is expanding into ?thus it is expanding possibly to infinity and not infinite in itself.I'm not talking about some "place" outside of the universe because that requires a point in spacetime as a reference point I'm talking about some "thing" of which we don't have a frame of reference so let's call it "nothing" yet instil it with conscious thought and power the universe with it.

I know space and time are connected so how can it be both expanding and infinite if the expansion implies distance travelled from a fixed starting point...the universe expanding into itself just defies logic.I could also argue the point that since a thought is not observable and has no physical presence then it could be qualified as a non thing. It is only when given substance that it becomes a thing.Would I be correct in assuming that you don't have the means to collect or assess the data needed to solve many of the questions and models i've proposed ?...and with regards to the data you have collected it merely shows you need to collect more of it cos dark matter/energy and brane theory shows you only know as little as anyone else with even a mild interest in cosmology and no formal training at all. I would even argue that formal training in the traditional academic sense actually stifles creative thought and as such value intuition more.If the multiverse can be proven by brane, bubbles or giant turtles then your collective set of everything that exists would have to be redefined into another word that really does include the set of everything including your somewhat limited universe so i can see why you wouldn't want to go there.Please don't take this as a personal assault on your beliefs but as a questioning of your faith in your field of knowledge and please don't deafen me with silence either.Everything I've posted I thought of myself and have found nothing as yet to convince me that it is not outside the realm of possibility or inconsistent with some of the current developing models regarding the universe and beyond.By the way do you believe in GOD ? and if so how do you visualise it ? and where does it exist ? if not then just take heart that at least it believes in you or you wouldn't exist.

I'm sincerely trying to "see" the model you guys have but it requires more logic than i possess at present but I thank you for your efforts in attempting to me enlighten rather than dismiss me as an ignorant asshole out for a bit of attention, however......a balloon and a basketball have a middle and an edge if you look at it from outside of it as a sphere. Being on it you wouldn't know especially if thats all you knew of it.so I'm thinking rather that the universe is the rubbery stuff it's made up of and the "thing I have no name for" is the air that inflated it and that surrounds it. Have you ever sucked bubble gum to form a bubble inside your mouth then suppose that is what is also fueling the constantly expanding balloon/ball/bubble as well as the initial exhalation of breath. For all intents and purposes one would still have the effect of 2 dots on the bubble representing galaxies getting further away from each other.did dark matter/energy exist before it had a name or was it nothing because no one had observed it yet and named it ? For to look at it with einsteins eyes he would have just seen "nothing" and at the current level of understanding it may as well be that.

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And you come to know this through your own vast formal, academic training?

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no...through intuition and observation :-} I hope you didn't waste precious time in college learning masses of redundant information just to regurgitate it ad nauseum to others in the hope that it would give them a false sense of your intelligence.Somethings you just know, you don't know how but you do. Silent knowledge...

too late you're in, now please deflate my balloon......or at least tell me why the air in it is not part of the analogyyou know you want to...

something is only relative when you have something else to compare it to...when there is only one thing it is nothing, give it a consciousness about it's own nothingness and call it GOD.a thought is nothing, until given substance by means of expression, thenBANG... something springs into existence but contained within the nothing that thought of it.GOD sustains/effects the universe by creative thought and it is that which we share the god principle and because it exists outdide of that which exists in our universe it is a non thing...yet still somethingwouldn't occam's razor suggest this to be the simplest theory ???heh heh

ACCEPT NOTHING AS FACTnothing is a thought so it must be something but how can nothing be something...here we go againQUESTION EVERYTHING...and it seems you can even interprete the razor in favour of both God and no GodDETERMINE YOUR OWN TRUTHFunny, I look at the world around me and can only conclude that this God you speak of can possibly exist...DEFINE YOUR OWN REALITY

seems a lot of scientists don't have a lot of faith in each other's theories......so I think I'll put my trust in god until proven otherwisedoes that make me a creationist even though I believe the universe is evolving ???hah...I just realized i put my trust in nothing and believe in nothing, guess i'm a nihilist but that's cool cos God is a nihilist as well...why else would it destroy a perfect nothingness to create a chaotic universe...[This message has been edited by RingoKid, 01-15-2004]

science cannot dispel the theory God so i would say religion has so far held up to the most critical scrutiny that being time...of course time will tell if it continues to hold up but you can't deny the fundamental truths of all religions concerning healthy living...the truth of your life is in the way you live it which leads to a higher power, so it's all good

so what would make the god theory into a testable hypothesis, ie...what sort proof would you need ???

I don't buy into supernature or metaphysics and have moved somewhat on from the limited "christian" view of God......the God i'm talking aboout is "creative consciousness" ie... the first cause, surely that can be testedOn a side note I been trying to get my head around "varela's neurophenomenology" but beyond the big words there doesn't seem to be a whole lot there just more of the same type of stuff most of you go on about pre big bang and singularities needing more advanced terms of reference and closer study.anyone got any other recommendations ???the other thing is I'm sure most of you are capable of forming a hypothesis on God that you can test you just don't want to, the hypothesized nature of God is nature itself being the will of God.We're all looking in the same places but speculating differently on what we find...

you basically just proved my point, you don't want to......and I already described the hypothesis, god as a creative consciousness is the first cause not some random fluctuation in a void.It's your God too whether you choose to believe or not so just be grateful that God believes in you or you wouldn't exist...<<(BTW aren't you just duplicating someone elses ideas anyway let's call it "regurgitationism")>><<(edit)>> sorry Ned that was uncalled for we're all guilty of coughing up tidbit's of disinformation, please don't take it personally or stop trying to enlighten me...thanx[This message has been edited by RingoKid, 02-04-2004]