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Author | Topic: How do you define the word Evolution? | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Dr Adequate Member (Idle past 313 days) Posts: 16113 Joined: |
This means theories that aren't verified by observation and experiment lay outside the realm of science ... I have a theory that the sun exists, but so far I have only been able to verify it by observation, so, alas, it lies outside the realm of science.
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Dr Adequate Member (Idle past 313 days) Posts: 16113 Joined: |
The medical profession concerns itself with the real world - to wit: helping the sick; it has no good reason to replace "become" with a contrived word like "evolved". The medical profession concerns itself with the real world - to wit: helping the sick; it has every reason to concern itself with phenomena such as the evolution of bacteria which threaten human health, which is why looking at medical journals reveals that they do in fact concern themselves with this.
Evolutionary biologist, on the other hand, don't concern themselves with the real world ... What a bizarre, stupid, insane lie. Whom is it intended to deceive?
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Dr Adequate Member (Idle past 313 days) Posts: 16113 Joined:
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A lot in biology makes perfect sense without evolution. E.g. the physical adaptations of the giraffe to cope with its height are functional requirements ... Further to my previous remarks, I would point out that only evolution makes sense of the fact that these are adaptations. Why should the neck of the giraffe, which is long and goes up, bear such a striking resemblance to the neck of, say, a pig, which is short and goes along? (If we found two analogous designed objects, such as a footbridge across a short stream and a radio mast, which had the same basic plan, which were so obviously variations on the same theme, this would not make sense to us, we would be deeply puzzled.) Now evolution does make perfect sense of the pig and the giraffe: they have common ancestry, they are adaptations of the same thing, and per the theory of evolution, evolution cannot scrap a design and go back to the drawing board. Without evolution, how would you make sense of it? A creationist might get as far as "God chose to do it that way for some reason", but what is the reason?
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Dr Adequate Member (Idle past 313 days) Posts: 16113 Joined:
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And this, CRR, is why "god did it" strikes us as a cop-out. You can always imagine that God did anything, earthquakes, rainbows, giraffes, whatever. He can do anything, he's God. But you then can't explain why God did it, or why he did it that way. But science can explain why things are that way.
Edited by Dr Adequate, : No reason given.
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Dr Adequate Member (Idle past 313 days) Posts: 16113 Joined: |
The examples I have seen are pretty dubious since they only increase the random mutation rate. They don't mutate a specific base in response to a specific environmental stimulus. It is equivalent to a desperate poor person buying more lottery tickets. It may increase their chances of winning, but it is still a random process. I'm not sure CRR was trying to suggest anything more than that.
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Dr Adequate Member (Idle past 313 days) Posts: 16113 Joined: |
I take your point. When you think about it, inanimate matter becoming animate matter is a form of evolution. Nope.
But I understand atheists' reluctance to tackle abiogenesis and their insistence on separating it from evolution - even the vivid imaginations of atheist scientists can't come up with an plausible explanation. So best to separate it and sweep it under the carpet; out of sight and out of mind. What an interesting fantasy world you live in.
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Dr Adequate Member (Idle past 313 days) Posts: 16113 Joined:
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Thank you. Percy, for this clear and concise explanation. Since, as you say, the antibiotic doesn't change the way bacteria populations mutate, how is it possible to determine if particular post-antibiotic mutations are due to the antibiotic or due to "natural" mutations (that may have occurred without the antibiotic)? That's easy. None of them is "due to the antibiotic" because evolution doesn't work that way. You ... you really don't know anything about evolution, do you? So why are you discussing it?
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Dr Adequate Member (Idle past 313 days) Posts: 16113 Joined:
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Theodosius Dobzhansky: "Nothing in biology makes sense except in the light of evolution." Mr. Dobzhansky, why have you drooled this stupid lie? Nothing in applied biology depends on your useless atheist theology - that all life evolved from a common ancestor - or will ever depend on it. Science is defined by observation and experiments; so go away, silly atheist space cadet. Your petulant anger at people who know more than you do is most amusing.
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Dr Adequate Member (Idle past 313 days) Posts: 16113 Joined: |
Dredge confesses that his understanding of the definition of speciation was flawed. Dredge now understands the definition of speciation and realizes that speciation is a fact You're welcome. I wonder how long it will take me to disabuse you of all your other naive misconceptions.
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Dr Adequate Member (Idle past 313 days) Posts: 16113 Joined:
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Well, David, that was bullshit wasn't it?
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Dr Adequate Member (Idle past 313 days) Posts: 16113 Joined:
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Well, David, that was also bullshit, wasn't it?
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Dr Adequate Member (Idle past 313 days) Posts: 16113 Joined:
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Name one use of medical science that depends on the theory that all life on earth shares a common ancestor. You seem a little confused, Dredge. I did not say "There is a use of medical science that depends on the theory that all life on earth shares a common ancestor". What I said was: "The medical profession concerns itself with the real world - to wit: helping the sick; it has every reason to concern itself with phenomena such as the evolution of bacteria which threaten human health, which is why looking at medical journals reveals that they do in fact concern themselves with this." If you can't refute this, which you obviously can't, then trying to change the subject is no substitute.
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Dr Adequate Member (Idle past 313 days) Posts: 16113 Joined:
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Ok, so the mutations appear to be independent of the antibiotic. In that case, all I see going on with antibiotic resistance is natural selection - bacteria mutate before and after the toxin, but it's still no more than natural selection. And mutation.
Natural selection alone can't account for how all life evolved from a common ancestor so in this sense, antibiotic resistance is not an example of evolution. The evolution of antibiotic resistance is an example of evolution.
On the other hand, if bacteria mutating can be called "evolution", then ok, bacteria "evolve". Therefore, saying "bacteria evolve" is just another way of saying "bacteria mutate". And undergo natural selection. Edited by Dr Adequate, : No reason given.
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Dr Adequate Member (Idle past 313 days) Posts: 16113 Joined: |
You can call antibiotic resistance and example of "evolution" if you like, but I fail to see how it can be used as evidence to support the theory that all life evolved from a common ancestor. Well, if we didn't see small-scale evolution, then we would have an excellent reason to doubt large-scale evolution. So the fact that we do see small-scale evolution is at least suggestive.
In order for all life to have evolved from a common ancestor, mutations must produce limitless increases in the information stored in DNA. No, just the increases that must have taken place to get us where we are now.
The mutations seen in bacteria are like a merry-go-round ... they are constantly in motion but they don't actually go anywhere. That would be something you made up.
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Dr Adequate Member (Idle past 313 days) Posts: 16113 Joined:
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It's interesting to note how all the creationists are wrong.
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