Christianity and the End Times

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There is no single truth which I love above the truth.

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My love of the truth is in the commitment to see what the Bible actually says, in the very first post.

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ANYBODY want to tell me what this Paulk BELIEVES about Jesus Christ ?My God is the man Jesus. Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.

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And if I just didn't WANT it to be so, SO BAD, I would make the words mean something else ??

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If you didn’t want it to mean a Rapture you would admit that it doesn’t specify how they would be spared. And that everyone it was originally addressed to is long dead and not exactly at risk.

I may have him confused with someone else but I think he's an atheist who rejects what the Bible says, just likes to study it for some reason. Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

So then folks, if Jesus promises this: Now if you believe Christ's clear word there, it is because you WANT a pre-tribulation rapture SO BADLY, that you won't have the words mean ... something entirely else.Now if you have realistic motives of a unselfish nature ( like PaulK the OBJECTIVE ONE) you would have it that Revelation 3:10 mean something ELSE that it doesn't say instead.This is ridiculous to criticize motive for believing the plain sense of Christ's words.Maybe PaulK doesn't believe Christ SAID anything in the book of Revelation ??Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.

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If you didn’t want it to mean a Rapture you would admit that it doesn’t specify how they would be spared. And that everyone it was originally addressed to is long dead and not exactly at risk.

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Are you, as Faith thinks she recalls - An ATHEIST ?Believe me, I know the that one of the quickest ways to assemble a room full of atheists is to start a Bible Study.Am I talking with an Atheist who is trying to help me understand the Bible ?Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.

I'll try to unpack this.

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If you didn’t want it to mean a Rapture you would admit that it doesn’t specify how they would be spared. And that everyone it was originally addressed to is long dead and not exactly at risk.

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Not sure I follow this.However I believe that Revelation reveals the souls of those who have died in the past for Christ, crying out "How Long O Lord? "See the Fifth Seal (Rev. 6:9-11) .In Hades the depatred seem aware of the passage of TIME even though they are not physically alive. They are calling out to God about HOW LONG His toleration of their unjust martyrdom would go un-avenged.Yes, I believe this is actually SO.The man-child of Revelation 12 is a partial answer to their cry of HOW LONG?Now if I believed ATHEISM and that there is NO God, NO Son of God, NO redemptive death and victorious resurrection, THEN I might think any thought of the departed saints asking HOW LONG the age of toleration will last, is fiction.You read about the Fifth Seal (Revelation 6:9-11) didn't you ?Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.

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As I have already pointed out, you want the Bible to teach that there will be a pre-tribulation Rapture. Losing one of your best arguments for it certainly seems to be of great importance to you since you argue over it incessantly.

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Revelation is a book of signs.
We have to interpret the signs.If I misinterpret the sign of the man-child (it is not a group of believers), the PLAIN teaching exists elsewhere to the fact. - as Christ will reign, those who overcome will reign with Him.Sure its important.
Ist important to you apparently, to resist the view.The Gospel doesn't stand or fall on these matter.So, you believe the man-child caught up to God and to His throne stands for ...... ?Or is it that you have no angel in this fight ?
And the easiest position to defend is no position. Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.

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I may have him confused with someone else but I think he's an atheist who rejects what the Bible says, just likes to study it for some reason.

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Well, if so SHHHHHH ! He wants to hold his atheism close to the vest I guess.
I don't know why.Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.

Dr. Adequate is another one who has read the Bible, pretty thoroughly I think, and doesn't believe a word of it, seems to think that because he knows literally what the words say that he has enough understanding to educate believers who are of course wrong about all of it according to him.abe: ringo is another who seems to know a lot of Bible and puts all his energy into using it against believers. Same with jar. /abeIn the discussion ab out the book of Daniel PaulK turned out to be following a pretty standard interpretation by modern revisionist "scholars" that takes the Seventy Weeks Prophecy to the time of the Maccabees and Antiochus Epiphanes and denies that it has anything to do with Jesus the Messiah. Even though he admits that the timing doesn't fit that interpretation. I'm not sure he's ever clearly said what he believes but he consistently rejects everything evangelical Christians believe.Your views are sufficiently different enough that I can't go with some of them myself but at least I know you are a believer.Edited by Faith, : No reason given.Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Come on Paulk.I know "speed kills" but this is ridiculous. If you're anti-Christian faith guy who ... um lacks a belief in God, doesn't take long to say so.My God is the man Jesus.
I don't have enough faith to be an atheist.Or you want to love God, but people like me who have such commitments get on your nerve around here ?

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Your views are sufficiently different enough that I can't go with somke of them myself but at least I know you are a believer

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And I think you'll find that I respect your disagreement. And I might say "Well, let's kick it around a little."I could be wrong too on something I can afford to be general about.The sweetness of Jesus .... that's a given though.
The AVAILABILITY of the living Lord and Savior?I think we are on the right track. Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.

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Now if you believe Christ's clear word there, it is because you WANT a pre-tribulation rapture SO BADLY, that you won't have the words mean ... something entirely else.

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As I pointed out, it doesn’t say how they will be kept out and dead people - which includes everyone who it was addressed to originally - are out of it anyway.But you won’t even acknowledge those points.

Yes, you are an Apologist.It's easy making shit up and taking passages out of context.But you asked for my opinion which I provided and replied with your usual dogma which misrepresents the Bible, tries to change the subject and is just the usually carny spiel expected from the Christian Cult of Ignorance.But you also lie about me, I am bot an unbeliever but rather a Christian, just not a member of the Christian Cult of Ignorance and so I cxan be honest about what is actually written in the Bible and have no need to pervert it as you seem to have.

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As I pointed out, it doesn’t say how they will be kept out and dead people - which includes everyone who it was addressed to originally - are out of it anyway.

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But you won’t even acknowledge those points.

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I acknowledge that it could the case.
But I don't think it is the case.But what is written to EACH church is for EACH OTHER church to HeAR. In fact WHOEVER HAS AN EAR is to hear what the Spirit says to the churches.I believe Christ spoke, is available, is God-man, and has the authority to speak to His believers down through the centuries to today. I mean TODAY.But if you are an ATHIEST for some reason you're not as quick to come out and say so.His word to the church in Philadelphia there is not completely unlike His word to the disciples in the Gospel of Matthew.You want to argue that pre-tribulation rapture talk in Matthew 24 is impossible.
I got that. And I disagree.But you want to nit-pick on that and keep close to the vest that the WHOLE NEW TESTAMENT is poppy cock to the atheist.An atheist that wants to out Bible-thump the Christian perhaps ??
That does something for you ? Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.

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Revelation is a book of signs.
We have to interpret the signs.

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That is certainly true of the manchild as I have been saying all along. The question is, how does your interpretation fit with the text? The manchild is not shown as overcoming, the overcomers are not mentioned as being in heaven.

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If I misinterpret the sign of the man-child (it is not a group of believers), the PLAIN teaching exists elsewhere to the fact. - as Christ will reign, those who overcome will reign with Him.

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Sure its important.
Ist important to you apparently, to resist the view.

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But I do not resist the view that the Bible says that some believers will reign with Christ. The Bible does say that. And I am not even arguing about whether it will really happen.

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So, you believe the man-child caught up to God and to His throne stands for ...... ?

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Or is it that you have no angel in this fight ?

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The topic is what the Bible really says. If the text is highly unclear, the symbolism not readily decoded, then so be it. I maintain that that is the situation here.