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Author Topic:   The legalization of drugs
nwr
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Posts: 6412
From: Geneva, Illinois
Joined: 08-08-2005
Member Rating: 5.3


Message 2 of 111 (363249)
11-11-2006 4:22 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Hyroglyphx
11-11-2006 4:12 PM


I agree that we should decriminalize drugs. I prefer "decriminalize" to "legalize", because "legalize" suggests that it should be legal to advertise drugs on billboards and on TV.
My bottom line is this: if criminals who are already locked up in jail still have ready access to drugs, then our current policy cannot possibly work.
As for why other countries don't do this, you would have to ask them. However, it is plain to see, that what drives the world wide drug business is consumer demand for drugs within the U.S.A. We try to supress the supply in Colombia or Afghanistan. But as long as there is demand in the U.S.A., one suppressed supplier will quickly be replaced by another supplier.
The campaign against nicotene use has been more effective than the campaigns against cocaine and opium derivatives.
Patient: When I poke myself in the eye, it hurts;
Doctor: then stop poking yourself in the eye.
We need to follow the doctor's advice.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Hyroglyphx, posted 11-11-2006 4:12 PM Hyroglyphx has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 3 by RAZD, posted 11-11-2006 4:38 PM nwr has replied
 Message 8 by Hyroglyphx, posted 11-11-2006 5:04 PM nwr has replied
 Message 31 by NewYorkCityBoy, posted 11-12-2006 1:08 AM nwr has seen this message but not replied

  
nwr
Member
Posts: 6412
From: Geneva, Illinois
Joined: 08-08-2005
Member Rating: 5.3


Message 5 of 111 (363255)
11-11-2006 4:48 PM
Reply to: Message 3 by RAZD
11-11-2006 4:38 PM


Re: Propose Pilot Pot Program Perhaps?
I have no problem with that. The criminalization of marijuana demonstrates that our drug program is all about politics.
If we seriously want to eliminate harmful drugs, let's ban sucrose and dextrose. Maybe we could throw in caffeine for good measure.
... to free up prison space for those sex offenders from congress.
I love that sense of humor.

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Replies to this message:
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 Message 13 by Hyroglyphx, posted 11-11-2006 5:25 PM nwr has seen this message but not replied

  
nwr
Member
Posts: 6412
From: Geneva, Illinois
Joined: 08-08-2005
Member Rating: 5.3


Message 14 of 111 (363268)
11-11-2006 5:27 PM
Reply to: Message 8 by Hyroglyphx
11-11-2006 5:04 PM


Re: The drug problem
I think it speaks more highly against the US prison system than it does the drug problem.
We have the prison system we are willing to pay for. If you want a better prison system, then you have to be willing to pay far more per prisoner than we currently spend.
But hard drugs are awful. Legalizing them will not make less addicts, it will make more of them and exacerbate the problem.
Typical right wing thinking. But this kind of thinking does not explain the reduction in nicotine use.
It is not at all obvious that decriminalizing drugs will exacerbate the problem. Right now one of the problems is that the easiest way for a drug addict to pay for his drugs, is that he get into the drug pushing business himself. Our drug laws force up drug prices, and increase the profitability for drug pushing.
Have you paid attention to how the U.S. government fights drugs? It coerces countries like Columbia to adopt policies that would be clearly unconstitutional in the U.S. As long as we value freedom from government coercion, drug pushers will find ways of doing business. If decriminalazation lowers the profits enough, you might actually reduce the size of the drug retail business. You would need to spend money (tax payer's money) publicizing the risks of these drugs.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 8 by Hyroglyphx, posted 11-11-2006 5:04 PM Hyroglyphx has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 24 by Hyroglyphx, posted 11-11-2006 9:08 PM nwr has replied

  
nwr
Member
Posts: 6412
From: Geneva, Illinois
Joined: 08-08-2005
Member Rating: 5.3


Message 15 of 111 (363269)
11-11-2006 5:34 PM
Reply to: Message 11 by Brian
11-11-2006 5:18 PM


Anyone got any idea what drugs George Bush is on?
Evangelical Christianity and right wing ideology. It's powerful stuff, well known to drive people nutty.

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nwr
Member
Posts: 6412
From: Geneva, Illinois
Joined: 08-08-2005
Member Rating: 5.3


Message 27 of 111 (363299)
11-11-2006 9:27 PM
Reply to: Message 24 by Hyroglyphx
11-11-2006 9:08 PM


Re: The drug problem
The reduction in tobacco use is attributed to campaign awareness.
Decriminalization of drugs should be accompanied by a comparable awareness campaign. But it needs to be honest. Scare tactics will backfire.
And the typical left wing thinking is coddle the criminals and turn the victim into the victimizer.
That's typical right wing criticism of the left, but probably not correct. In any case, I don't count myself as left wing. I'm a pragmatist. What we have been doing has been an abject failure. As a pragmatist, I favor trying something different.
You'd still have the same exact problem in Jar's scenario.
I haven't seen jar's scenario. I have only seen your summary, but there is a good chance you missed important details.
First of all, the Constitution only applies to the United States, not Columbia.
Sure, just like the constitutional prohibition on torture applies only in the US. So we use "extraordinary rendition" and torture them overseas. It is disgusting. I have contempt for our government when it does that, and I have contempt when it coerces Colombia or other countries to do what would be unconstitutional here. And now you seem to be saying that, as an evangelical Christian, you are every bit as unprincipled as those who do extraordinary rendition.
Secondly, if the Colombian gov't didn't want to play along, they wouldn't.
Sure. just like Saddam didn't want to play along, so he didn't.
Except this time, on top of their still being violence attributed to drugs, on top of it, the taxpayers would subsidize all of its own problems.
Is anybody proposing subsidy?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 24 by Hyroglyphx, posted 11-11-2006 9:08 PM Hyroglyphx has not replied

  
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