boasts of Athiests II

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Can you point me towards some of that information. I really really am curious about those kinds of things. Lets just say i love the chemistry of cooking, and what a variety of steps can do to foods like CHEESE . Oh how I love you my cheese...

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You want this book.It is the Bible for all of us food geeks.

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Besides a side thing is that i learn how to cook...the women shall flock to my food!

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A man who cooks! Irresistable.

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General or specific--doesn't matter.

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I'd say it matters a great deal.Let's say that someone has a crush on an actor and gets the chance to meet them in person. They have imagined very specifically how the meeting will go, how the object of their devotion will act, and what they will say to them and treat them, and vice versa.They will likely be very disappointed once they realize that the actor they have been crushing on is just a person, will not want to be friends with them, will not fulfill any of the imagined scenarios at all. They will be sorely disappointed.However, let's say there is another person who admires the same actor and gets a chance to meet them and has no such specific expectations. They hope only for the visit to be cordial and pleasant.Any sort of interaction that meets these very realistic general expectations will likely result in satisfaction with the experience, rather than disappointment.

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Take some quality like "glamor." It's an illusion caused by distance. The closer you get to something the less glamorous it is. That which seemed to be glamorous turns into the ordinary upon close inspection.

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But that's just part of growing up and realizing, once you get to a certain level of maturity, that the world does not exist to satisfy your every expectation of what each of your life experiences should be like.

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That would be one way to define maturity: "I can't get what I want, so I will settle for something else. It's better than nothing."

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Yes.Only an infant screams and whines and throws a tantrum when they are denied something they want. A major part of growing up is learning that one is not the center of the universe and everyone around you and the Universe does not exist to serve you.Do you actually think that instant gratification of our every whim and desire would be a good way to live?

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Many, many lives play out this way: the gradual, almost imperceptible lowering of expectations.

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Yes.Most people become less self-centered once they get out of adolescence, but others never do.They remain passive, petulant and spoiled their whole lives, whining about how everybody and everything continues to disappoint them, as if it is the Universe's job to masticate their lives and feed it to them.

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Could we tone down the moralistic flavor a little bit? We are trying to discuss the nature of human experience, not the best or most mature way to live.

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Moralistic? How so? I have made no moral statements whatsoever, only statements of cause and effect related to one's expectations of life.The nature of human experience is directly affected by how one perceives the Universe and their expectations of life.Besides, you are constantly spinning everything remotely positive anyone says about life into as bleak and negative a light as you can.I think I am coming back in equal measure to what you are putting out.Like I said, it is all about perceived expectations, which we all choose to make.

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Onarism disgused as "keeping it real" is never an attractive quality.

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Yes we all get it, we get it, you've convinced us all. We are deluded but you are in touch with the truth.

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We all get it.

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If you meant "onanism"...ROTFLMAO!!!!Perfect.

Bestpostever.

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But the point is, which definition of reality corresponds to our experience of it?

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In the way you are using the word "reality", the "reality" we choose corresponds to our perception of the experience.Perception is everything, robin.I perceive my mother's behavior in an entirely different way now compared to when I was 20. She acts in pretty much the same way; behaves even worse in some respects. She does not have the same negative effect upon me that she used to because I choose to not let it affect me. She has no power over my feelings of self-worth at all, but she used to have all the power. I taught myself how to change my perception of her, of myself, and of life itself.

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I understand Jar's "niceness"
in some ways, but in other ways he is not so nice.

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I agree. This is irrelevant to the discussion in my mind.

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I understand that we want to be "positive": so do I.

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See, I don't get any sort of impression that you want to be positive about much of anything. At all. Truly.

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But I also want to know things, to figure things out. Is that so terrible?

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No.But finding awesomeness and wonder and joy in life doesn't mean that you ignore or avoid despair, misery, and sadness.Nor does it mean that you do not try to figure things out.It only means that you allow yourself to experience a full spectrum of emotions.You seem determined to cynically reject any simple enjoyment of the Universe, and even become "annoyed" and incredulous when people say they find such enjoyment, and find it quite regularly. I'd say that says more about you than it does about anyone else.

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I know that many people have good intentions. I know that people want to be happy. So do I.

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Not only do they want to be happy, they actually are happy.

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I know that you enjoy your life,

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Oh, you believe me now. That's good of you.

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and I am very happy that you got out of that negative stuff you experienced earlier. I have been one of the lucky ones. I always had it easy. But not everybody did.

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Maybe you need to learn to work harder, then, to find contentment.

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I'm not trying to be negative; I'm trying to understand the nature of human experience.

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But you do spin everything in the most depressing, negative way possible, and come close to mocking the happiness of others because it seems as though you just cannot believe that people actually live like that.That is the impression you give. Truly.

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I always believed you. I just thought you exaggerated a tad.

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Excellent post, Schraf.

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Thanks for the thoughtful response.

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I'm sure we can understand each other in due time.

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I am much obliged, robin. Thank you.I hope we do understand each other.

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THAT's the real problem, that we pretend we're satisfied with compromises and then insist on making our pretenses into virtues. So we pep-talk it up how much satisfaction is to be found in life as it is if we will only put ourselves in the right frame of mind toward it, magnify the ordinary little pleasures of life for instance.

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You know, sometimes life doesn't meet my expectations, it's true.But it fairly regularly exceeds my expectations as well.I expected a lot out of my previous employment situation, for example. In a few ways ways, it fell short, but in the vast majority of facors that matter most to me, my job greatly surpassed my expectations.I regularly marveled at my supreme good fortune, and in 7 years could count on the fingers of one hand how many times I didn't look forward to going to work.I truly loved it.But that's just puke-inducing sentimentality, right?

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No, that's not sentimentality.

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Why isn't it?And what of the fact that my life experience exceeded my expectations in that case? I imagined a lot about what a great workplace and a great job would mean, yet the reality far outstripped my imagination.Has life only ever disappointed you and Robin?Has life never exceeded your expectations, even when they were grand?

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Not when they were grand, no. But life often exceeds our expectations in minor matters. Maybe a friend wants me to watch a movie in which I am uninterested. I just watch it to please him, and it turns out to be much more interesting than expected. That would be a case of life exceeding expectations.

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On the whole, however, maturity--as you suggested earlier--consists of lowering our expectations.

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But what of my example? My occupation would hardly be considered minor.My marriage has also exceeded my expectations in many respects.Perhaps these major factors of my life have exceeded my expectations in direct proportion to the amount of effort I put into them.

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Shakespeare and the King James translation of the Bible have left a lot of phrases to the everyday use. I think some of the paucity of contemporary speech may well be the influence of the mass media and advertising. I've no expertise in this field and don't want to make an in depth study but it seems possible doesn't it?

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Mass media +
commercials/advertizing +
television -
reading =
people who cannot write or speak eloquently.

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Why exactly do you consider the most negative aspects of a proposed person's statements or actions first?

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Projection.

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What dominated the 60s among the liberal in-crowd was a moralistic, self-righteous political correctness.

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...as opposed to the current Neo-Con in-crowd's moralistic, self-righteous moralistic self-righteousness.

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Are you then saying that Robin's inability to identify any form of positive, selfless act is then being projected onto me as a penalty?

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Not exactly.He projects the way he thinks about life on to everyone else, assuming everyone else thinks, more or less, the same way.