Far left - US/UK definition

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Everything you are calling a neutral fact is a leftwing position and if I can get back to it later to make the case I will.

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So, is it actually NOT a fact that Israel has a sophisticated military?Is it actually NOT a fact that the Palestinians do not, and all they have are sticks, stones, and suicide bombers?Is it actually NOT a fact that Israel punishes the Palestinian people as a group for the actions of a few?

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And no, I don't call everybody left wing I disagree with, I disagree with everything I know is left wing.

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...and what, to you, is "left wing?"Please be specific.

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Monopolies are a problem, and are inherently averse to capitalism.

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...yet they thrived in the US for quite some time, along with a complete lack of protection of any kind (physical, financial, etc) for the worker.Many, many ordinary workers risked everything in the strikes and lockouts, and quite a few lost their lives at the hands of the industrialists' henchmen fighting for reasonable treatment by their employers.Reagan ushered in a return to the old ways when he broke the back of the air traffic controller's union.

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Thus, every capitalist nation has particular laws and regulation to keep that in check. Thus, I agree with you that some order of checks are needed. And thus, even in nations where conservatives are more powerful, like the US, those checks remain.

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But we see them being eroded when conservatives are in power.We are seeing companies being allowed to default on pensions, we see deregulation of many industries which has only led to higher prices and other fun things like massive power blackouts, we see new laws being passed that deny people overtime pay even when they are required to work overtime, etc.It's the workers, after all, that ultimately create wealth.

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ironically, it is the left in the US, at least, that protects the trial lawyers who have made government so fearful.

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Trial lawyers serve an important purpose in protecting the individual citizen against well-heeled corporations.With the advent of the independent entity known as "the corporation", businesses long ago stopped "doing the right thing" by people they harm and instead deny any and all wrongdoing through high powered, highly-paid legal tapdancing.Nowadays, hitting corporations in the finances is the only thing they care about and pay attention to.A perfect case in point is the country's largest corporation, Wal-Mart. Check out how they treat their workers: MSN | Outlook, Office, Skype, Bing, Breaking News, and Latest VideosWal-Mart has also been investigated several times for labor and immigration violations.The Walton kids own 2% of the US's GDP! How vigorously do you think a conservative government is going to go after such wealth?

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Doctors and hospitals are first rate - once you get by the waiting lines to see them. And, as of recent, our hospitals are falling behind in the newest equipment.

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The "newest equipment" is useless if you can't get an appointment.Here in the US, insurance premiums are very expensive, especially if you have children, and the co-pays are an additional cost, and then there is the two to three month wait for an appointment.You may have to wait, but at least you aren't paying hundreds of dollars a month to not be able to get in to see the doctor.

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Of course there was, and is today, a vibrant poltiical culture, and it was, and is today, largely repreented in the two principle US parties (Although there have been other important parties in times past, but not now.)

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I disagree that there is a vibrant political culture in the US today.Most people correctly observe that there is very little difference between the two parties, although these days, with the authoritarian neo-cons in power and the Democrats finally figuring out that being "Republican-lite" was only getting them slapped around, we are seeing a slight shift towards more actual difference in opinion.But is there great diversity of political views that get any attention or credence at all in the US?Not in the least.This message has been edited by schrafinator, 07-25-2005 10:03 AM

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CNN news is only centre or right of centre to someone who is well left of centre.

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So, you have heard Wolf Blitzer making a case for worker's rights and denouncing the bourgeois way of life?Or anything close?

Steve, do you think that Bill Clinton is a liberal?

Faith, would it be "leftist" in your mind for a news outlet to mention how many american soldiers have died in Iraq?Would it be leftist for them to show the flag-draped coffins arriving home?

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Yes I'm for repealing the 14th amendment and letting the states determine their own laws without Big Brother telling them what's right and wrong. The federalist union wasn't supposed to take away the sovereignty of the states to the extent it has.

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So...in your mind there should still be a Confederacy free to practice human slavery?

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Arabs express similar dehumanizing hatred of Israelis and Jews too.

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Yeah, but wouldn't you have some strong words for people with guns, tanks and missiles who gun down your women and children? Wouldn't you fight back with everything you had against such people, including using unconventional tactics like covert bombing methods?

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as for cnn -- i don't see them knocking the war. but i also don't see them covering stories that you get in foreign sources that make the right look really bad (with facts, mind you) unless it's something as big as this rove thing.

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What "Rove thing?"Do you mean the Rove thing that the Whitehouse was able to knock off of the "liberal media's" radar so easily by rushing to announce the new SCOTUS appointee?

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I already said those are facts, Schraf.

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No, you said they were "facts", not facts.

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That is false, as I made clear. They are as exact in their targeting of terrorists as is possible under the circumstances.

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So, when they open fire upon women and children, and also upon residential areas and groups of kids with rocks, this is "targetting terrorists"?Also, you sidestepped my argument regarding the inequality of military resources.If you were in a country that had no military and no police force, and you were being attacked by another country that had a sophisticated, large military, and they shot and killed people who threw rocks at them, how would you fight back?

People who use their military might against those who have almost none are simply bullies.I'd like the US and others to stop providing billions in military arms to Israel and let them all just throw stones at each other and blow up each other's residences.I'll bet that Israel wouldn't be so arrogant then.

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he is.

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Actually, he's very much like the Republicans of yesteryear, very much like Nixon and Goldwater.Remember when both of them were considered "right wingers"?Now they would have to be Democrats because both of them would be considered far too "liberal" to be a Republican.It's just that your perception of what is "left" or "right" has shifted so very far to the right that you don't consider people like Frist to be on the fringe, which he is.You just don't realize that what you consider "left wing" was actually "moderate Republican" just a few decades ago.

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But, he is also more centrist than his party these days, which is why he had to drag it more to the middle to be elected.

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I think that Reagan and Bush Sr. completely tanking the economy had more to do with why Clinton got elected.

Do you think that OSHA and the National Park System and the EPA are agencies supported by the left or the right?