Register | Sign In


Understanding through Discussion


EvC Forum active members: 65 (9164 total)
5 online now:
Newest Member: ChatGPT
Post Volume: Total: 916,912 Year: 4,169/9,624 Month: 1,040/974 Week: 367/286 Day: 10/13 Hour: 1/1


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
Author Topic:   An amazing story
crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1497 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 7 of 123 (275448)
01-03-2006 5:25 PM
Reply to: Message 4 by Faith
01-03-2006 5:10 PM


Re: First take
This includes all the atheist arguments, knowledge of all the other religions, and of course thorough immersion in the ToE.
No offense, but if there were legitimate rebuttals to the arguments of atheists, and to the scientific case for evolution, nobody would hold those positions.
I appreciate your candor, and I'd be delighted to see churches adopt your views, but the result would be less believers, not more. The intellectual validity of atheism and the scientific validity of evolution have not ever been shown to be assailable except to those with a prior committment to belief, such as you had.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 4 by Faith, posted 01-03-2006 5:10 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 8 by randman, posted 01-03-2006 5:26 PM crashfrog has replied
 Message 10 by Faith, posted 01-03-2006 5:53 PM crashfrog has replied

  
crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1497 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 9 of 123 (275454)
01-03-2006 5:36 PM
Reply to: Message 8 by randman
01-03-2006 5:26 PM


Re: First take
Yea, I mean the fact we hold to these beliefs is all the evidence you need to know we are right...yippee!
Well, atheists have a vocal and observable committment to rationalism.
On the other hand, anti-intellectualism is a prominent and celebrated part of your Christianity. You yourself have provided links and quotes of Christians admonishing followers to have "childlike faith", in other words, to retreat from adult rationality.
Your side makes no secret that Christianity isn't expected to make sense to its followers; simply that it's to be believed.
So, I stand by my statements. If there were legitimate rebuttals to atheist positions, there wouldn't be many atheists.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 8 by randman, posted 01-03-2006 5:26 PM randman has not replied

  
crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1497 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 14 of 123 (275467)
01-03-2006 6:21 PM
Reply to: Message 10 by Faith
01-03-2006 5:53 PM


Re: First take
Not everyone has the intellectual talents or interests required for arguing the issues, it's just that they shouldn't be in the position of hearing it all for the first time from unbelievers. That's deadly.
Why? Seems like Christian fundamentalists have absolutely no problem dismissing anything unbelievers have to say.
At any rate, do you really think it's possible for Christians to accurately portray the atheist arguments? I've seen how you people butcher evolution; I've got a few of your pamphlets sitting here on my desk.
The church's teachers aren't going to get it right, and so when the college-age believer hears the arguments, and they're a lot more compelling than they remember, they're going to say "huh, I wonder what my church was trying to hide, exactly?"
Look, you're just going to lose Christians to college. It's just going to happen, because a fair number of Christians entering college are Christian because they don't know any better; because that's the only religion they've ever really seen, the only way they know how to live.
An expansion of knowledge and opportunity, of education, is going to pull a lot of those people away. It's just going to happen. Exposing them to that knowledge earlier is just going to pull them away earlier.
It is possible to be a genuine Christian and yet too much on the level of head knowledge,
This is what I was talking about to Randman, about Christian anti-intellectualism. "Damn that uppity book-larnin!"

This message is a reply to:
 Message 10 by Faith, posted 01-03-2006 5:53 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 15 by Faith, posted 01-03-2006 6:26 PM crashfrog has not replied
 Message 16 by Faith, posted 01-03-2006 6:44 PM crashfrog has not replied

  
crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1497 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 96 of 123 (276542)
01-06-2006 10:26 PM
Reply to: Message 95 by Faith
01-06-2006 10:18 PM


Re: OT jabs n stuff
Evolution is an explanatory system, it is not science as such.
But that's what science is.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 95 by Faith, posted 01-06-2006 10:18 PM Faith has not replied

  
crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1497 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 99 of 123 (276546)
01-06-2006 10:37 PM
Reply to: Message 98 by Faith
01-06-2006 10:34 PM


Re: SCIENCE
Evolution is this gigantic meta-explanation, pure fantasy, into which scientific data is merely crammed.
There's no cramming necessary, and quite frankly, you would know that if you'd ever set foot into a biology classroom.
Let's be honest. Your constant and hilarious biological blunders make it absolutely clear that you have absolutely no basis for concluding what you do.
But if you try, really try to track down a piece of data, say, and understand how it fits evolution, you just find yourself in a morass of imaginative scenarios that have no actual objective support.
Well, let's try it. Open a thread and we'll do just that. Or is this going to be one more of your insupportable claims?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 98 by Faith, posted 01-06-2006 10:34 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 100 by Faith, posted 01-06-2006 10:40 PM crashfrog has replied

  
crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1497 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 102 of 123 (276551)
01-06-2006 10:51 PM
Reply to: Message 100 by Faith
01-06-2006 10:40 PM


Re: SCIENCE
But I wish others would try it for themselves.
I did. Why do you think I stopped being a creationist and became an evolutionist?
I don't mean scientists I mean ordinary people, because you have a habitual way of thinking that will prevent you from doing what I'm suggesting.
Scientists can't be ordinary people? What do you think they are, Martians?
Why do you hate scientists so much, Faith?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 100 by Faith, posted 01-06-2006 10:40 PM Faith has not replied

  
crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1497 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 113 of 123 (276583)
01-07-2006 12:34 AM
Reply to: Message 109 by Faith
01-06-2006 11:45 PM


Re: OT jabs n stuff
No that's according to YOU. I merely see a gigantic belief system that everybody feeds out of habit while engaged in their own corner of the science field fitting their piece into the whole without questioning it.
Does it make sense to you, that people could get accurate results from a theory that's just wishful thinking?
How does that work? If we live in a universe where theories that are just wishful thinking are just as useful as the theories that actually describe reality, then what's the point? If any old made-up thing is as useful as the truth, then what does it matter what you or I believe about the world? Does "right" or "wrong" even have meaning in such a world?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 109 by Faith, posted 01-06-2006 11:45 PM Faith has not replied

  
Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2023 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.2
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2024