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Author Topic:   Judaism - True or False Religion?
DeclinetoState
Member (Idle past 6468 days)
Posts: 158
Joined: 01-16-2006


Message 96 of 116 (289801)
02-23-2006 12:39 PM
Reply to: Message 4 by Phat
02-14-2006 12:55 PM


If Jesus originally came for the Jews, what about John 3:16?
Matt 15:21-24-- Leaving that place, Jesus withdrew to the region of Tyre and Sidon. 22 A Canaanite woman from that vicinity came to him, crying out, "Lord, Son of David, have mercy on me! My daughter is suffering terribly from demon-possession."
23 Jesus did not answer a word. So his disciples came to him and urged him, "Send her away, for she keeps crying out after us."
24 He answered, "I was sent only to the lost sheep of Israel."
Why would He not say that He was sent to everyone?
John 3:16 says: "For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life."
Now I know there is some doubt as to whether the words originated with Jesus, or whether they were intended as commentary by John, with Jesus' discourse ending with verse 15. If the words in vs. 16 were written by John, and the Gospel, as many believe, was written years after Jesus' death (and resurrection), then it arguably reflects development in Christianity as a religion for the Gentiles, not just the Jews. If, however, we believe that Jesus spoke the words in verse 16, we have the problem of them seeming to contradict Matt. 15:24 quoted above.
I think it makes more sense to say that Jesus did not speak the words in John 3:16, and that they are a comment added by John (or the writer of John's Gospel, if that was in fact someone else) years later, after Christianity had begun to spread to the Gentiles.
This message has been edited by DeclinetoState, 02-27-2006 12:29 PM

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Replies to this message:
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DeclinetoState
Member (Idle past 6468 days)
Posts: 158
Joined: 01-16-2006


Message 101 of 116 (289862)
02-23-2006 5:09 PM
Reply to: Message 100 by Faith
02-23-2006 3:36 PM


The "spirit" of a reading
Faith writes:
The "spirit" of a reading is not necessarily "general" or in any way neglectful of the word-for-word meaning of the text.
The issue that Faith is confronting is one that confronts many Bible translators, especially translators of modern versions, who often get criticized by KJV Only supporters and others who believe only a literal translation of the Hebrew and Greek is justifiable.
I think anyone who translates the Bible should not be condemned if their goal is to make it understandable and clear up confusion about difficult passages, especially in either the Old Testament law or in the epistles.

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 Message 100 by Faith, posted 02-23-2006 3:36 PM Faith has not replied

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 Message 102 by ramoss, posted 02-23-2006 11:02 PM DeclinetoState has replied

  
DeclinetoState
Member (Idle past 6468 days)
Posts: 158
Joined: 01-16-2006


Message 104 of 116 (289926)
02-24-2006 1:43 AM
Reply to: Message 102 by ramoss
02-23-2006 11:02 PM


Re: The "spirit" of a reading
One problem that causes is that the translation will be promoting the theology of the person doing the translation. They might not be giving the best translation for the intentions, but only what their predetermined interpretation would be (to reinforce their theology).
But can't that be said about even a "literal" translation? The simple fact is that no translation or version of the Bible will make everyone happy.
Getting back to the original topic, I'm sure there are many passages in the OT of Christian Bibles that Jews dislike; though whether those have any bearing as to the truth or falsity of the Jewish religion is something I can't address.

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 Message 102 by ramoss, posted 02-23-2006 11:02 PM ramoss has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 105 by ramoss, posted 02-24-2006 8:25 AM DeclinetoState has replied

  
DeclinetoState
Member (Idle past 6468 days)
Posts: 158
Joined: 01-16-2006


Message 107 of 116 (290879)
02-27-2006 12:58 PM
Reply to: Message 105 by ramoss
02-24-2006 8:25 AM


Jews and Isaiah 7:14
When a christian is doing a translation of the Jewish texts, they tend to look at the "old testament" as something that is predicting Jesus, and chose words to try to emphasis that (including some out and out mistranslations and lies, such as Psalm 22, and isaiah 7:14).
Isaiah 7:14 (KJV):
Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel.
Isaiah 7:14 (Jewish Translation from the Hebrew)
Therefore the L-rd Himself will give you a sign: Behold, the young woman is with child, and she shall bear a son, and you [or, she] shall call his name Immanuel.
The NIV, ASV, and a few other "Christian" translations of the Bible agree with the KJV and use "virgin"; the RSV, Catholic JB and NJB, and others use "young woman" or something similar.
See Forbidden ("Is Isaiah 7:14 a Messianic Prophecy?") for a more detailed discussion.
I tend to agree with the "young woman" reading simply because it fits the context of Isaiah better. The purpose of the young woman having the child was to give a message to King Ahaz about how soon God would kill the Kings of Aram and Israel, and how he would later bring destruction upon Judah. (It all seems a bit complicated to me, but I'm not God, so I don't know all the ins and outs of His reasoning.)

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