Oh, and Catholic Scientist has found a source that completely contradicts you! Now what?
Ok...so we have two sources which completely contradict each other. I guess we have to agree to disagree in that case. Which was our stance right from the word go right?
This is a debate site. We come here to debate. We don't come here to agree to disagree. We don't come here to read unevidenced assertions. You've brought a baseball to a chessmatch.
Laryngeal tension is not tension in the laryngeal nerve, you dolt.
Another article for you;
Injury to the external laryngeal nerve causes weakened phonation because the vocal cords cannot be tightened. Injury to one of the recurrent laryngeal nerves produces hoarseness, if both are damaged the voice may or may not be preserved, but breathing becomes difficult.
Injury to the external laryngeal nerve causes weakened phonation because the vocal cords cannot be tightened. Injury to one of the recurrent laryngeal nerves produces hoarseness, if both are damaged the voice may or may not be preserved, but breathing becomes difficult.
Yes, that's because injured nerves can't transmit signals effectively anymore, making control of the mmuscles difficult, leading to these problems.
Again, this says nothing about your claims.
Aren't we just going round and round in circles?
If you would finally give some refferences than we could stop doing that.
This is a totally different nerve, it goes down to innervate the cricothyroid muscle, the only laryngeal muscle not innervated by the recurrent laryngeal nerves. If anything this totally contradicts your claims as it shows that it is the normal nerve impulse conducting function of the nerves that is important and a direct path is sufficient for such innervation, tension in nerves is not mentioned.
The fact that injuries to both recurrent and external nerves impair vocal cord contral also suggests that the path is totally irrelevant and it is normal nervous function that is important.
You seem to have taken that quote straight from Wikipedia without appreciating the context ...
wikipedia writes:
The larynx is innervated by branches of the vagus nerve on each side. Sensory innervation to the glottis and laryngeal vestibule is by the internal branch of the superior laryngeal nerve. The external branch of the superior laryngeal nerve innervates the cricothyroid muscle. Motor innervation to all other muscles of the larynx and sensory innervation to the subglottis is by the recurrent laryngeal nerve. While the sensory input described above is (general) visceral sensation (diffuse, poorly localized), the vocal fold also receives general somatic sensory innervation (proprioceptive and touch) by the superior laryngeal nerve.
Injury to the external laryngeal nerve causes weakened phonation because the vocal cords cannot be tightened. Injury to one of the recurrent laryngeal nerves produces hoarseness, if both are damaged the voice may or may not be preserved, but breathing becomes difficult.
Its all about what muscles are innervated by the nerves not their position or state of tension.
BigAl writes:
Aren't we just going round and round in circles?
Only because you refuse to put forward any references that actually support your claims that it is the route of the recurrent laryngeal nerve and tension on the nerve that allow it to function normally. All the evidence out there suggests that its functions is the same as any other nerve; conducting impulses to innervate other tissue, in this case the laryngeal muscles.
TTFN,
WK
Edited by Wounded King, : No reason given.
Edited by Wounded King, : Added link to wikipedia page.
Injury to the external laryngeal nerve causes weakened phonation because the vocal cords cannot be tightened. Injury to one of the recurrent laryngeal nerves produces hoarseness, if both are damaged the voice may or may not be preserved, but breathing becomes difficult.
Aren't we just going round and round in circles?
That doesn't have anything to do with the nerve being recurrent or not. Either way, recurrent or not, if you damage the nerve then those problems are gonna happen.
Yes, that's because injured nerves can't transmit signals effectively anymore, making control of the mmuscles difficult, leading to these problems.
Okay....my last post on this subject. So feel free to have a field day while I am gone.
From yet another article;
"The first thing an irritated nerve does is to start to send messages to the muscles to tighten up. So the vicious cycle starts. Tight nerves lead to tight muscles. This is called Neuromeningeal tension. "
So far, everything you have said is wrong.
Presumably all these articles, scientists and experts are also wrong?
I can never be sure that your sources will not always be classed as 'good' research and my sources always be classed as 'bad' research.
But that means that you are pre judging your own evidence as bad.
I'm stunned: if you do not have faith in you own evidence then how can anyone else be expected to?
Look at it this way: if you do provided evidence for your claims you will a) no longer be vulnerable to being acused of making baseless assertions, b) provide a starting point for th discussion and c) be able to assertain if people are actually adopting an unbiased approach to reviewing evidence.
The worst that can happen as a result of you providing your citations is that people can provide counter evidence to rebute (if they can) your position (notice how an assertion with evidence becomes a position that can be argued?).
You've got nothing to loose and everything to gain.
"The first thing an irritated nerve does is to start to send messages to the muscles to tighten up. So the vicious cycle starts. Tight nerves lead to tight muscles. This is called Neuromeningeal tension. "
For this I'd need a source, I'd need to read the context. But I'm not gonna get any, am I?
{ABE}: Found the article this comes from. Guess what, that is not about the laryngeal nerve, furthermore, it doesnt mean "tight 'nerves" like you do, and even if it did, it says tight nerves are a problem not a benefit.
Once again you have been shown to be utterly and completely worng.
Presumably all these articles, scientists and experts are also wrong?
What articles, scientists and experts? I haven't seen any. I've only seen you assert some things. Some things that are comletely wrong.
quote:Effect of Nerves Before we go into the problems of muscles we need to remember the nerve structures. Current research has reminded us that muscles and tendons are not the only things that have to stretch and slide as the body moves. Nerves have been the forgotten ingredients over many decades of sports therapy. Nerves have to be free to move with every action and before each muscle stretches the nerve or its coverings (meninges) will stretch first. The interesting thing to remember is any bruising around areas where nerves exit from the spine (such as after a whiplash injury) or where nerves pass through muscles (such as after a fall), can cause adhesions around the nerve coverings and stop the necessary movement. What happens then? Well when nerves are caught up through adhesions or scarring and prevented from moving they get very irritated. The first thing an irritated nerve does is to start to send messages to the muscles to tighten up. So the vicious cycle starts. Tight nerves lead to tight muscles. This is called Neuromeningeal tension.
Can we sum up the last couple of pages by saying that since giraffes have a longer, more stretched recurrent laryngeal nerve than humans do, they can sing better than humans?
You think Big Al is from a fundie school and he is doing this for class credit? I cannot believe someone would come here this woefully unprepared for no reason. The nagain he is a fundie creo, so there is no telling.
1) Unfounded assertions check 2) No sources check 3) All assertions shown false check
Sounds like someone with training or a degree from a fundie school.
Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts
Can we sum up the last couple of pages by saying that since giraffes have a longer, more stretched recurrent laryngeal nerve than humans do, they can sing better than humans?
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