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Author Topic:   Foundations of ID
Parasomnium
Member
Posts: 2224
Joined: 07-15-2003


Message 34 of 213 (203560)
04-29-2005 4:03 AM


Debunking some nonsense
I just read through this thread and I would like to comment on a few points Jerry made in several posts.
In Message 1, Jerry wrote:
[...] quantum mechanics now provides evidence of an observer to provide the wave-collapse function to make matter solid in the universe.
The collapse of the wave-function (not the "wave-collapse function", as you have it) does not result in "making matter solid in the universe." It simply means the realisation of one of several possibilities. I think you are mixing up ideas about waves, energy and matter, and are somehow seeing waves and energy as unreal, and (solid) matter as real. The following quote (from Message 9) illustrates this:
Perhaps the most difficult dilemma to explain is the fact that individual particles such as photons, electrons and neutrinos are a very real part of our universe and yet to also understand that if photons are to be particles rather than waves as they sometimes are, it requires a conscious observer to collapse the wave-function--to make the reality of our universe, real indeed.
In Message 14, Jerry wrote:
Darwinism because it's not science, it's religion.
This is sloppy thinking. If something is not science, it's therefore religion? Shopping is religion? Having a telephone conversation is religion?
Also in Message 14, Jerry wrote:
Theories of science must be taken through the strict scientific method in order to become theories of science.
Another example of careless thinking. Something must undergo a certain procedure to become what it already is? That doesn't make sense.
Again, in Message 14, Jerry wrote:
[...] nothing in Darwinism is falsifiable. I would love to hear someone falsify common descent, or that man and apes shared a common ancestor, or that huge, ferocious land mammals called pakicetus poofed its legs into flippers, crawled off into the oceans and magically morphed into whales, or that weird looking reptiles shoved their jawbones up into their ears and poofed into mammals.
You are painting a false picture by using the word 'poof'. It suggests a rapid, if not instantaneous process, whereas Darwinism states no such thing. In fact, Darwinism proposes quite the opposite: the process of evolution is gradual and can take literally ages and ages to produce even the slightest difference between an organism and its descendants.
Also, I am not sure you understand what 'falsifiable' means. It doesn't show from what you said about it. The fact that common descent has not been falsified as yet, does not mean that it isn't falsifiable at all.
In Message 32, Jerry wrote:
Catholic Scientist writes:
This seems to suggest that the detectors are affecting the photons. Perhaps when the photon hits the detector it messes up the interference pattern it would have made.
The photon doesn't hit the detector. The detector is just there to observe the photon as it goes by.
I'd love to hear your technical explanation of how a photon detector works.
On second thought, don't bother. A detector cannot observe a photon "going by". To detect a photon, it must hit the detector, it's as simple as that. And when a photon hits a detector, it's no longer available to cause an interference pattern elsewhere.

We are all atheists about most of the gods that humanity has ever believed in. Some of us just go one god further. - Richard Dawkins

Replies to this message:
 Message 36 by Jerry Don Bauer, posted 04-29-2005 4:47 AM Parasomnium has replied

  
Parasomnium
Member
Posts: 2224
Joined: 07-15-2003


Message 37 of 213 (203576)
04-29-2005 5:50 AM
Reply to: Message 36 by Jerry Don Bauer
04-29-2005 4:47 AM


Re: Debunking some nonsense
Jerry writes:
Parasomnium writes:
The collapse of the wave-function (not the "wave-collapse function")
anyone can dissect the meaning.
Parsing "collapse of the wave function", I get the meaning that there is a function that describes a wave and that said function collapses. When I try "wave-collapse function", I get the meaning that there is a function which has the purpose of collapsing waves. That's quite a different meaning. When talking science, one must be precise and, more importantly, know what one is talking about.
The wave function describes the probabilities of finding a particle at particular positions. The collapse of the wave function is nothing more than actually finding a particle at a certain position. When you have found the particle (observed it), then the probability of finding it elsewhere is zero. That's what is meant by the collapse of the wave function.
Jerry writes:
Parasomnium writes:
It simply means the realisation of one of several possibilities.
Those several possibilities would be....like what?
It's possible to find a particle at position X, and the wave function describes the probability of that happening. It's also possible to find a particle at position Y, and the wave function also describes the probability of that happening. The collapse of the wave function means that one of the possibilities has become reality, and you have actually found the particle at a certain position.
Jerry writes:
There is not one tenet of it you can show has been taken through the scientific method to be shown as science.
Name one, and we'll see.
Jerry writes:
My interpretation of poofs doesn't mean instantaneous poofs, just magical poofs ethereally caused by spells from anointed poof fairies inherent in certain "sciences" I attempt to stay away from.
Trying to ridicule the theory of evolution isn't very convincing. Please support your interpretation of 'poofs' in evolution.
Jerry writes:
The deal is, it {common descent, P.} is not falsifiable, therefore according to science, it isn't science either.
Why is common descent not falsifiable?
Jerry writes:
COOL! The next time you pass a cop with a radar detector out, floorboard that sucker. Remember, he cannot observe you going by unless you hit him.
Sloppy thinking again. You have me confused with a radar wave. What the cop detects with his device are radar waves (photons) reflected by a car. If for some reason the reflected photons do not fall on the detector, they do not constitute a measurement. In other words: the cop cannot observe radar waves unless they hit his detector.
This message has been edited by Parasomnium, 29-Apr-2005 11:42 AM

We are all atheists about most of the gods that humanity has ever believed in. Some of us just go one god further. - Richard Dawkins

This message is a reply to:
 Message 36 by Jerry Don Bauer, posted 04-29-2005 4:47 AM Jerry Don Bauer has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 38 by Wounded King, posted 04-29-2005 6:03 AM Parasomnium has replied
 Message 47 by Jerry Don Bauer, posted 04-29-2005 5:12 PM Parasomnium has replied

  
Parasomnium
Member
Posts: 2224
Joined: 07-15-2003


Message 39 of 213 (203581)
04-29-2005 6:58 AM
Reply to: Message 38 by Wounded King
04-29-2005 6:03 AM


Cadillac detectors
Did you know that in the lesser educated police departments they provide their officers with Cadillac detectors one day, and Chrysler detectors another? Lately, they are puzzled by the fact that only officers who have NOT detected a Cadillac or a Chrysler a certain day, report for duty the next day...

We are all atheists about most of the gods that humanity has ever believed in. Some of us just go one god further. - Richard Dawkins

This message is a reply to:
 Message 38 by Wounded King, posted 04-29-2005 6:03 AM Wounded King has not replied

  
Parasomnium
Member
Posts: 2224
Joined: 07-15-2003


Message 65 of 213 (203902)
04-30-2005 6:04 AM
Reply to: Message 47 by Jerry Don Bauer
04-29-2005 5:12 PM


Re: Debunking some nonsense
Jerry writes:
You seem to be dropping your logic
The only thing I'm dropping right now is my jaw at the astonishing combination of ignorance and arrogance you are displaying in your posts.
Don't expect discussion from me anymore, I have better things to do.

We are all atheists about most of the gods that humanity has ever believed in. Some of us just go one god further. - Richard Dawkins

This message is a reply to:
 Message 47 by Jerry Don Bauer, posted 04-29-2005 5:12 PM Jerry Don Bauer has not replied

  
Parasomnium
Member
Posts: 2224
Joined: 07-15-2003


Message 111 of 213 (204872)
05-04-2005 5:06 AM
Reply to: Message 110 by Jerry Don Bauer
05-04-2005 4:49 AM


Jerry writes:
observe that Paul never introduced a SINGLE peer-reviewed paper to show this "fact of science" to be even a hypothesis of science.
On account of your silly notions of how science works, Paul wins anyway.

We are all atheists about most of the gods that humanity has ever believed in. Some of us just go one god further. - Richard Dawkins

This message is a reply to:
 Message 110 by Jerry Don Bauer, posted 05-04-2005 4:49 AM Jerry Don Bauer has not replied

  
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