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Author Topic:   Foundations of ID
MangyTiger
Member (Idle past 6382 days)
Posts: 989
From: Leicester, UK
Joined: 07-30-2004


Message 123 of 213 (206280)
05-08-2005 10:32 PM
Reply to: Message 120 by Jerry Don Bauer
05-08-2005 9:20 PM


Why come up with a helicopter design for bats when the wings I designed for birds do the job perfectly well?
I'm willing to be corrected by people who know more biology than me but I don't think bat and bird wings are all that similar.
A quick Google seems to back this up. I quote from this article from the University of California, Irvine :
A bat's wings are not only different from a 747's; they are also quite unlike the wings of a bird. They lack feathers, obviously. And although the humerus, radius, and ulna of birds are quite similar to the humerus and radius of bats (which have only a vestigial ulna), avian hand bones have largely fused [see illustration above]. But bats' carpal bones conjoin at a point about halfway along the leading edge of the wing; the bones of the short, clawed first finger (homologous to our thumb) jut forward. The long second finger forms most of the distal half of the wing's leading edge. The third finger runs closely behind the second, but all the way to the tip of the wing. The fourth and fifth fingers run from the leading edge to the trailing edge of the wing, and stretched across all the fingers is a thin, flexible skin [see illustration below].
You'll have to follow the link to see the illustrations - but they show the differences nicely.
If I flip 12 coins together at once and want them to all come up heads, I will have 1 chance in 2^12 of this happening. But suppose the system slowly evolves into existence.
I will flip 3 coins together, wait a year, flip another 3 and add them to the system, and continue this for four years.
The first year, the odds I will get all heads is 1 chance in 2^3. And I will have those same odds each year for four years. Then to calculate the entire system, I have to multiply all the steps together:
2^3*2^3*2^3*2^3 = 2^12 -- It's exactly the same!
Again I'm at the limits of my knowledge here but doesn't your analogy have to have some element of selection to be meaningful ?

09/04/05 - Sharks attacked
30/04/05 - Wasps swatted
14/05/05 - More of the same ?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 120 by Jerry Don Bauer, posted 05-08-2005 9:20 PM Jerry Don Bauer has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 124 by Jerry Don Bauer, posted 05-08-2005 10:46 PM MangyTiger has replied
 Message 125 by jar, posted 05-08-2005 10:49 PM MangyTiger has replied
 Message 126 by RAZD, posted 05-08-2005 10:54 PM MangyTiger has not replied
 Message 129 by RAZD, posted 05-08-2005 11:22 PM MangyTiger has replied

  
MangyTiger
Member (Idle past 6382 days)
Posts: 989
From: Leicester, UK
Joined: 07-30-2004


Message 127 of 213 (206289)
05-08-2005 11:01 PM
Reply to: Message 125 by jar
05-08-2005 10:49 PM


Yeah, I know.
If life was designed the designer started from scratch every time (no short term memory?) and was totally incompetent.
Maybe the designer was a genius but he hired some really dodgy outfit to do the implementation because they were cheap.
Hey - maybe we're all the result of cosmic outsourcing !

09/04/05 - Sharks attacked
30/04/05 - Wasps swatted
14/05/05 - More of the same ?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 125 by jar, posted 05-08-2005 10:49 PM jar has not replied

  
MangyTiger
Member (Idle past 6382 days)
Posts: 989
From: Leicester, UK
Joined: 07-30-2004


Message 130 of 213 (206307)
05-08-2005 11:47 PM
Reply to: Message 129 by RAZD
05-08-2005 11:22 PM


Thanks for the pointers.
I'll point JDB at the links you provided and see what he has to say about them.

09/04/05 - Sharks attacked
30/04/05 - Wasps swatted
14/05/05 - More of the same ?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 129 by RAZD, posted 05-08-2005 11:22 PM RAZD has not replied

  
MangyTiger
Member (Idle past 6382 days)
Posts: 989
From: Leicester, UK
Joined: 07-30-2004


Message 131 of 213 (206311)
05-08-2005 11:59 PM
Reply to: Message 124 by Jerry Don Bauer
05-08-2005 10:46 PM


In Message 129 RAZD links to a post by Jacinto and one by himself which to my mind illustrate a serious flow in your probability argument.
I would be interested in your view/rebuttal regarding what they say.

09/04/05 - Sharks attacked
30/04/05 - Wasps swatted
14/05/05 - More of the same ?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 124 by Jerry Don Bauer, posted 05-08-2005 10:46 PM Jerry Don Bauer has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 132 by Jerry Don Bauer, posted 05-09-2005 12:54 AM MangyTiger has not replied

  
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