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Author Topic:   Did God say it, or did you say it?
Hyroglyphx
Inactive Member


Message 26 of 127 (548436)
02-27-2010 4:32 PM
Reply to: Message 19 by ICANT
02-25-2010 6:48 PM


Re: Literal
That is exactly the way the Bible is interpeted.
Some believe what God said.
Most disagree and suppose that is not what God really meant. Then they give their idea of what He meant.
It's not a matter of believing what God said, it's a matter of trying to understand how or what Moses (or whomever the author was) was trying to convey.
I assume you agree that the bible often uses allegory and imagery to convey a point that was never intended to be literal.
Or should we expect you to start telling mountains to the throw themselves in to the oceans based on Jesus' instructions?
Besides we don't know if God said anything. Just because someone claims to be speaking on behalf of God, I assume you don't always believe that lest you think suicide bombers are spot on.
Taking the authority of the bible on account of itself is obviously circular, so these are valid questions.

"Political correctness is tyranny with manners." -- Charlton Heston

This message is a reply to:
 Message 19 by ICANT, posted 02-25-2010 6:48 PM ICANT has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 40 by ICANT, posted 02-28-2010 5:11 PM Hyroglyphx has replied

  
Hyroglyphx
Inactive Member


Message 34 of 127 (548579)
02-28-2010 10:26 AM


Yom = ?
Is it really so critical either way? Will it destroy one's faith whether or not it's literal or figurative?

"Political correctness is tyranny with manners." -- Charlton Heston

Replies to this message:
 Message 35 by Flyer75, posted 02-28-2010 11:04 AM Hyroglyphx has replied

  
Hyroglyphx
Inactive Member


Message 36 of 127 (548589)
02-28-2010 11:45 AM
Reply to: Message 35 by Flyer75
02-28-2010 11:04 AM


Re: Yom = ?
My point is yes, you can believe that the earth is millions of years old and still be a Christian. Who am I to judge the human heart??? But I think if one believes that they are coming from a point of view that is trying to make science fit into the Bible when I just don't see the need to do that.
Have you ever wondered at what point the author was given this special revelation? The Genesis narrative never explains how the author, presumed to be Moses, knows what he does in order to even claim it derives from God.

"Political correctness is tyranny with manners." -- Charlton Heston

This message is a reply to:
 Message 35 by Flyer75, posted 02-28-2010 11:04 AM Flyer75 has not replied

  
Hyroglyphx
Inactive Member


Message 44 of 127 (548619)
02-28-2010 5:41 PM
Reply to: Message 40 by ICANT
02-28-2010 5:11 PM


Re: Literal
What makes you think Moses was trying to convey anything?
Because if you don't write clearly then no one knows what you're talking about.
Moses was in God's presence for 40 days.
Allegedly.... You can't trust a murderer who buries his victims in sand.
I am a literalist.
So then parables should be taken literally?
I don't have enough faith to tell a mountains to remove itself into the sea. That would require as much faith as believing all this just happened.
Apparently no one has, including Jesus, so don't feel bad
But a person that can not believe Genesis 1:1 would not accept their testimony as reliable.
Why not? I think if people heard God they'd tend to believe.
But the Bible is not a book. It is a collection of 66 books that was written by some forty different writters on three continents, in three languages over a period of 1500 years.
I never said otherwise.
So explain to me what is circular about what it says.
Saying the bible has authority because the bible says it has authority is circular.

"Political correctness is tyranny with manners." -- Charlton Heston

This message is a reply to:
 Message 40 by ICANT, posted 02-28-2010 5:11 PM ICANT has not replied

  
Hyroglyphx
Inactive Member


Message 56 of 127 (548700)
03-01-2010 4:23 AM
Reply to: Message 47 by Peg
02-28-2010 6:25 PM


Re: actually...it's not that simple
no, the hebrew word YOM stands for any length of time. Thats all.
In english, a day can also be a longer period of time more then 24 hours.
If an old person tells you a story that begins with "back in my day" , you understand that he is not speaking about a specific 24 hour day but rather the years of his life when he was a younger person.
I dont understand why no one gets this point about Yom. ????
I know what you are saying, and to a degree you are right. Occasionally, Yom is an unspecified amount of time, but more generally it is meant as a literal day, i.e. Yom Kippur.
That the author of Genesis goes out of his way to use wording like, It was day, it was night, the first day. It was day, it was night, the 2nd day, etc, etc, only lends credence to the position that he was illustrating literal days here.
From a literary standpoint, I think that is what the message is trying to convey. From scientific standpoint, I highly doubt it!

"Political correctness is tyranny with manners." -- Charlton Heston

This message is a reply to:
 Message 47 by Peg, posted 02-28-2010 6:25 PM Peg has not replied

  
Hyroglyphx
Inactive Member


Message 97 of 127 (549480)
03-08-2010 8:34 AM
Reply to: Message 96 by purpledawn
03-08-2010 8:21 AM


Re: Address the Topic
How do you know that what you are saying is what God meant and not just what preachers think it means?
How do you know that what you are saying is what the Priestly writer meant and not just what preachers think it means?
These stories belong to a different culture and dead languages. We have lost the slang, humor, idioms, and the substance of their lives. We're all guessing, IMO.
Precisely. There is no way of knowing the authors intent without the author's direct input; and quite frankly, he's dead, whomever that may be. We're all just making educated guesses.
How are we even supposed to know it was written by a guy named Moses? Tradition claims it was written by Moses. It certainly could have been, but we don't really know that. We're taught that.

"Political correctness is tyranny with manners." -- Charlton Heston

This message is a reply to:
 Message 96 by purpledawn, posted 03-08-2010 8:21 AM purpledawn has not replied

  
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