Are The Historical Respective Roles Of The Genders Relevant Today?

There are just so many things wrong with this post.Strangely, my own parents worked in a similar way to the one you advocate and I do not, never have, felt much honor, love or respect for them. I was spanked and I remember the pain and terror of the spankings but I have no idea what I did to "deserve" them. I remember my mother, too confused and spineless to take on any disciplinary role herself, telling me and I would be terrified sick all day. I wasn't beaten with a belt or a stick or anything. Just your version of plain old "loving corporal punishment." I guess your answer would be to tell me I was a wuss for not taking my medicine. Or maybe he needed reassurance that the horrible shit who smacked him was still capable of warmth and approval, since you were his father and he was stuck with you for better or for worse. Having jobs with "nice incomes" and families says zero about a person's emotional or psychological well-being. This is what always gets overlooked when people claim that corporal punishment "did me/them no harm." Lack of awareness is not the same as lack of existence. If you think that scaring a child shitless earns their respect or makes for a happy future, you are truly deluded (a conclusion that any sensible person reading this thread would have come to from the OP).

I agree with Purpledawn's post above, she has been eloquent on this subject. I would add that a 50/50 partnership is essential for my husband and me. In fact too often he wants to let me have my way and I have to remind him that he needs to make his contribution too. You see, what happens when you run roughshod over a person's own needs is, it creates resentment. So while outwardly they might say, "Yes dear, do what you want," they may be quite angry inside. These feelings don't go away and they create further problems down the line. I don't want either my husband or me to be resentful, so we hash things out together, and it works.I notice you haven't responded to my post about corporal punishment. In the war of anecdotes mine's pretty good, don't you think? I grew up with a domineering father with anger management issues, who always resorted to verbal or physical threats when he didn't know what else to do (which is what I suspect happens to most if not all parents who claim that their corporal punishment is "loving" and "necessary"), and a submissive mother. I could never identify with her because I craved a strong role model. My father was a bully. Is this really what you want for people, Buzsaw -- is this the Biblical ideal of a family living Christian values? I got head problems from some of this stuff that are taking years to undo. Go ahead, try justifying this lifestyle to me some more.

By the way Buz, it's "Kitsune" with an "n". Dear me, and it seems you paid no attention to what I was saying about this. You said that when you and your wife can't come to a mutual agreement, you win by default because you are the husband. You said something about how you believe this is handy for everyone in order to break an impasse. I said that when a person repeatedly feels they have to override their own needs in order to cater for another's, there will be resentment, conscious or unconscious, expressed or not. This will be happening in your system as long as the woman is overridden by her husband; the message there still is, "We can't agree on this so I'm having it my way -- now be glad that the argument is over because this is what's best for everyone." The implication is that the woman is a second-class citizen and she is forced to accept this as part of her self image, even if she's taught herself to smile uncomplainingly because hubby knows best. And her daughters must be taught the same. If you truly feel your system is more egalitarian than this, why don't you take turns with who has the final say. Make next week your wife's week to win out when you both disagree. Let us know how it goes. And again you are ignoring the points I was making. How do you think a child is going to see a father who spanks them or threatens to do so -- you don't think there's any element of fear there? Why else do you think the child behaves, if not out of fear? (Other posters on this thread have pointed out that it is actually possible to get a child to behave by earning their respect but you seem to have the deeply confused notion that smacking a child makes them respect you.) What's more, IMO parents smack their children when they themselves are frustrated and don't know what other methods to use, even if they fool themselves that it's about "loving discipline." So yes, your Biblical husband looks to me like a person who is quick to anger and physical punishment, and that is what the child will experience.What's even more twisted is that you think it is acceptable for the mother to duck her own responsibility for discipline (which the child will also pick up on) and leave the threat hanging that daddy will "deal" with the child when he gets home. Then daddy gets to be the bad guy that the child fears all day long. Everybody loses. You need to think about what this stuff does to a child in his or her head, Buzsaw. Having a well-paying job and a family are, I repeat, no real indicators of a person's emotional or psychological state of well-being. Edited by Kitsune, : No reason given.Edited by Kitsune, : No reason given.

Two things wrong with this. Firstly, you are once again appealing to tradition; you have been called out on this several times and have so far not explained why you follow some rules from the Bible and not others. Apparently being the head of the household works for you but owning slaves doesn't, but you won't explain why. Lots of chaps in the Bible had several wives and concubines as well. They could also sell their children into slavery, though the daughter's price was set lower than the son's. Why aren't you following these sacred Biblical precedents?The other thing is that people banging their moral gong always blame society's ills on whatever it is they are preaching against. Darwin, according to creationists, is apparently responsible for liberals, women who don't know their place, governments that tell them what to do, litter on the highway and whatever else winds them up. At the moment it isn't Darwin though, it's families that don't try to live like Hebrew tribes did thousands of years ago.Pardon me if I don't stone my daughter to death when she loses her virginity. What's bad about making your children afraid of you because you hit them with a stick or threaten to do so? If you're actually asking this question then I think it speaks for itself.By the way, I'd lose my job if I hit my students. Curiously, I get them to behave just fine using other methods. They don't fear me, they respect me. The same goes for my daughter. Even curiouser, she is not a "bratty" child, she behaves fine when we go out, she knows where the boundaries are and they are consistently enforced. All this and no hitting with sticks. Funny, that. Yes that really taught me my lesson over and over when I was little. [/sarcasm]And you seem to have missed the bit where I pointed out that as his father, you would have been one of the most important people in his life. A little child depends on its parents for love, approval, and safety. This is ironically why, even when a parent is the instigator of some kind of pain, the child will go right back to that parent for comforting. Just something to think about. This is deeply disturbing.Edited by Kitsune, : No reason given.