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Author Topic:   Is faith the answer to cognitive dissonance?
Taq
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Posts: 10085
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 5.1


Message 21 of 227 (557652)
04-27-2010 1:01 PM
Reply to: Message 12 by Peg
04-27-2010 6:40 AM


when it comes to religion, the bible provides the 'evident demonstration' thru its record of historical events linked with Gods people. These are too numerous to mention individually but they include things like prophecies and the arrival of the Messiah. The people who wrote these historical facts were eyewitnesses to them and this is why christians today can put faith in their words.
The belief that these are facts and actual historical occurences is where blind faith comes in. For historical figures such as Jefferson and Shakespeare we have accounts from disinterested sources, and even the enemies of these figures. Not so with Jesus. The only accounts we have were written by followers several decades after the fact. Not only that, but these accounts contradict each other in ways that can not be ignored. You would think that dead people walking the streets after Jesus' resurrection would have made the local papers, or something. Jesus is also said to have appeared to hundreds, if not thousands, of people before the ascension. Not one of those supposed disinterested witnesses reported anything.
Do you believe that a man named Shakespear wrote Romeo and Juliet? If you do, how do you know that he did write it?
Actually, it is very possible that Shakespeare stole some of his material from other playwrights (e.g. Christopher Marlowe). I have no dogmatic belief that Shakespeare did write Romeo and Juliet, although that is the best possibility as of right now.
Do you believe that the USA's 'Declaration of Independence' was actually written by Thomas Jefferson?
Absolutely not. He had a lot of help writing it. Also, the complaints listed in the DoI can be verified from several disinterested sources.

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Taq
Member
Posts: 10085
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 5.1


Message 43 of 227 (557720)
04-27-2010 5:44 PM
Reply to: Message 39 by slevesque
04-27-2010 4:54 PM


You do realize that in court laws, I doubt they would qualify only visual evidence of the murder by the jury as 'concrete'.
I equally doubt that every testimony given in court is the whole truth, and nothing but the truth. I would hazard a guess that more than one person has gone to jail for perjuring themselves on the stand.
What we look for in testimonials is motive. What does the person have to gain for making a specific claim? The source is just as important as the actual statement.

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 Message 44 by slevesque, posted 04-27-2010 5:49 PM Taq has replied

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 10085
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 5.1


Message 47 of 227 (557734)
04-27-2010 6:37 PM
Reply to: Message 44 by slevesque
04-27-2010 5:49 PM


Of course, I totally agree. Nevertheless testimonial evidence is usually considered important in courts. Because it is just like personnal visual evidence, only with another person as intermidiary. So as you said, this person must also be evaulated in regards to the claims.
And here is where it gets even hairier. With the gospels we can't even authenticate the authorship nor an we cross examine the author. On top of that, much of the gospels are made up of second hand accounts (i.e. heresay). Now if this were all related to a mundane historical fact we could overlook some of these problems and be fine with knowing that the claims may not be true. However, we aren't talking about anything mundane here. We are talking about a deity become man who comes back to life and is the sole key to the afterlife. That is anything but mundane. Surely one needs something better than second hand accounts of questionable authorship with no means of verification.

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 Message 44 by slevesque, posted 04-27-2010 5:49 PM slevesque has replied

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Taq
Member
Posts: 10085
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 5.1


Message 69 of 227 (557854)
04-28-2010 9:50 AM
Reply to: Message 62 by Peg
04-28-2010 5:16 AM


Re: Authorship
My point is simple. Why is it universally accepted that Shakespere wrote 'romeo and juliette'?
We have way more evidence that Shakespeare was the author of these works than Luke being the author of the Gospel of Luke.
"Support for William Shakespeare as author rests on two main pillars of evidence: testimony by his fellow actors, and by his fellow playwright Ben Jonson in the First Folio, and the inscription on Shakespeare's grave monument in Stratford.[17] Title pages, testimony by other contemporary poets and historians, and official recordsthe type of evidence used by literary historians that Stratfordians believe is lacking for any other alternative candidateare also cited to support the mainstream view.[a][18] Despite this, interest in the authorship debate continues to grow, particularly among independent scholars, theatre professionals and a small minority of academics.[19]"
source
But even this amount of evidence, more than we have for the authorship of the Bible, is not enough to make it a fact.
Also, the importance of Shakespeare's plays and poems have nothing to do with the author. They could have been written by a group of 20 unknown authors and still carry the same importance. Even more, the importance of Shakespeare's plays have nothing to do with their historical accuracy. They are fiction. The play "Julius Caesar" is renowned for the drama, not the history.

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