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Author Topic:   The evidence for design and a designer
Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 312 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 39 of 153 (585448)
10-08-2010 11:00 AM
Reply to: Message 36 by tesla
10-08-2010 8:13 AM


Re: What experiments?
Heres an experiment: Live your life the way you want to, by what feels right. and then grow old and die.
After you have died, is there more?
This experiment has already been performed: but no-one has published the results.
ID, IMO, Is simply recognizing the perfection of balance of all that exists.
Then why do some things fall over?
man can build a computer, see it, and recognize it came from intelligence.
And man can look at a tiger and recognize that it came from two other tigers unintelligently making out.
And both these feats of recognition come from prior knowledge --- we know how computers are made and how tigers are made. It is not clear that an ideal reasoner, without this sort of knowledge, could infer these things merely by abstract contemplation of a computer and a tiger.
So how are we meant to decide whether the universe is more like a computer or a tiger? Of course, if we could find a label on the bottom of the universe saying "Made In Taiwan", this would be a useful indication ...
Edited by Dr Adequate, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 36 by tesla, posted 10-08-2010 8:13 AM tesla has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 44 by tesla, posted 10-08-2010 10:22 PM Dr Adequate has replied

Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 312 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 47 of 153 (585639)
10-08-2010 11:32 PM
Reply to: Message 44 by tesla
10-08-2010 10:22 PM


Re: What experiments?
ID is an argument about how it all came to be the way it is.
But in fact cdesign proponentists never say how and refuse to discuss it.
Not that things are the way they are. One side says its random designation of interation; The other position says its a design by an intelligence. If i'm wrong, correct me?
You are wrong. I have never heard anyone say "random designation of interation" about anything.
If not: Its a matter of faith to say its random, and a matter of faith to say its God's design.
And a third class of people, who, unlike the first, actually exist, attribute it to the laws of nature --- which requires no faith whatsoever.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 44 by tesla, posted 10-08-2010 10:22 PM tesla has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 50 by tesla, posted 10-09-2010 2:09 AM Dr Adequate has replied

Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 312 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 51 of 153 (585660)
10-09-2010 3:01 AM
Reply to: Message 50 by tesla
10-09-2010 2:09 AM


Re: What experiments?
Well if you don't want to look past your nose, you certainly do not have to.
Your meaning is obscure. I have often looked past my nose. In fact, it is impossible for me to look in any other direction.

This message is a reply to:
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Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 312 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 52 of 153 (585662)
10-09-2010 3:05 AM
Reply to: Message 48 by tesla
10-09-2010 1:49 AM


Re: What experiments?
Yes there are other things besides 'biological evolution proves all things have randomly came together so screw donkeys if you want to' science.
There are indeed. For example there's real science --- which does not say that "all things randomly came together"; which does not endorse the screwing of domesticated African equids; and which is not a bunch of crazy crap that you made up in your head.
I have frequently been disappointed in the sophistry of this site.
Ah, irony.
Edited by Dr Adequate, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
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Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 312 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 53 of 153 (585664)
10-09-2010 3:13 AM
Reply to: Message 49 by tesla
10-09-2010 2:05 AM


Re: What experiments?
My observations are not dogma. its an untested half educated guess. But it makes more sense than accepting everything sprang out randomly for essentially no purpose at all.
And science makes more sense than either of those options.

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Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 312 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 58 of 153 (585837)
10-09-2010 11:38 PM
Reply to: Message 57 by tesla
10-09-2010 11:35 PM


Re: What experiments?
Double speak aside: either chance or direction was the universe brought into being.
How have you eliminated the other alternatives?

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 Message 57 by tesla, posted 10-09-2010 11:35 PM tesla has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 68 by tesla, posted 10-10-2010 6:41 PM Dr Adequate has replied

Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 312 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 70 of 153 (585986)
10-10-2010 6:54 PM
Reply to: Message 68 by tesla
10-10-2010 6:41 PM


Re: What experiments?
What’s to eliminate? String theory or plate theories etc? They fall under 'chance' since no theories accepted by science include the direction of a creator.
Well, no. Some things happen by chance, some by intelligent direction, and some fall in neither set. Granted, the two sets are disjoint, but I don't see why you assume that they're complementary.
Edited by Dr Adequate, : No reason given.

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 Message 68 by tesla, posted 10-10-2010 6:41 PM tesla has replied

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 Message 71 by tesla, posted 10-10-2010 6:56 PM Dr Adequate has replied

Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 312 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 77 of 153 (586005)
10-10-2010 7:15 PM
Reply to: Message 71 by tesla
10-10-2010 6:56 PM


Re: What experiments?
Can you further elaborate?
For example, I do not attribute the six-fold symmetry of snowflakes to design by Jack Frost; but nor do I attribute it to one vast coincidence.
Rather, it happens because that's what water does --- it is the result of neither chance nor design, but necessity.

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 Message 71 by tesla, posted 10-10-2010 6:56 PM tesla has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 79 by tesla, posted 10-10-2010 7:32 PM Dr Adequate has replied

Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 312 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 84 of 153 (586025)
10-10-2010 8:10 PM
Reply to: Message 79 by tesla
10-10-2010 7:32 PM


Re: What experiments?
That came out a bit ... metaphysical.
I hardly know what to make of statements like this:
In order for a necessity to be present, there must be an introduction. Otherwise, a timeless non conflicting existence could not have a necessity placed.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 79 by tesla, posted 10-10-2010 7:32 PM tesla has replied

Replies to this message:
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