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Author Topic:   Austerity measures have they ever saved an economy?
caffeine
Member (Idle past 1054 days)
Posts: 1800
From: Prague, Czech Republic
Joined: 10-22-2008


Message 2 of 168 (648623)
01-17-2012 4:22 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by DC85
01-16-2012 9:02 PM


I'm very dubious about the 'logic' behind austerity. We're hovering in and out of recession, at the moment and the solution to get out of recession, if I understand things correctly, is for people to spend more.
So what does the government do? It cuts spending. Austerity cuts mean companies that rely on cushy government contracts losing out. It means those self-employed dealing with a reduced income, and it means larger companies having to lay off staff or abandon plans at expansion. These people with less money, and others scared by the layoffs or by government pronouncements that we all have to chip in and do our bit in harsh times, will tend to spend less, thinking, rightly or wrongly, that they can't afford luxuries at times like these.
This, in turn, hits the income of those who provide said luxuries, exacerbating the problem further. It seems that austerity cuts are one surefire way of hurrying us into recession, not a way of saving the economy.
Paradoxically, some cuts could increase government spending elsewhere, as people who used to be indirectly supported by the government through their wages, are now entitled to various forms of government support through being out of work.
Of course, I don't really understand economics, but then I strongly suspect that nor do the politicians and talking-heads advocating these measures. It's an ideological response to the crisis from the right.
Edited by caffeine, : abuse of the innocent comma, plus the extra bit about unemployment benefits.

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caffeine
Member (Idle past 1054 days)
Posts: 1800
From: Prague, Czech Republic
Joined: 10-22-2008


Message 5 of 168 (648639)
01-17-2012 9:02 AM
Reply to: Message 4 by frako
01-17-2012 7:02 AM


A school with 10 students has 40 teachers, so that they all have something to do they teach poorly so students haveto catch up on their learning so that the other teachers have something to do, by teaching them in the afternoon.
Of course, that's not actually true. Greece has about 10 students per teacher. Now, if you want to make an argument that this is too many, that's another issue - but ludicrous hyperbole isn't helpful. You're trying to make it sound like the situation in Greece schools is some unique and special case when, in fact, they simply have a similar pupil-teacher ratio to Portugal, Sweden, Norway, Russia, Croatia, Georgia, Lebanon and several other countries.

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caffeine
Member (Idle past 1054 days)
Posts: 1800
From: Prague, Czech Republic
Joined: 10-22-2008


Message 11 of 168 (648736)
01-18-2012 4:39 AM
Reply to: Message 7 by frako
01-17-2012 9:46 AM


Yea on average but the school in Agios Efstratios has 10 students and 40 teachers.
This seems unlikely. I've been trying to find some account of it online, but it's not mentioned anywhere in English-speaking media. The only times it comes up is in enraged rants in comments sections. Given that, to be true, it would require a significant portion of the island to be employed as teachers (the population is only a couple of hundred), it sounds like a dubious rumour to me.
Greek government spending isn't that different to most other countries in the EU. I think we need to be very wary about tabloid stories of Greek profligacy, because I fear we're getting caught up in the rhetoric of an ideologically-driven movement which is taking advantage of the crisis to push through their 'small government' vision, which could turn out to be very risky.

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caffeine
Member (Idle past 1054 days)
Posts: 1800
From: Prague, Czech Republic
Joined: 10-22-2008


Message 128 of 168 (649379)
01-23-2012 5:00 AM


Austerity backlash?
I saw a news story the other day which gave me heart that some sort of public backlash against austerity-obsessed governments may be developing. In the latest opinion polls in the Netherlands, the single most popular party was the Socialist Party.
To clarify what a shock this is, the Socialists are not the mainstream centre left of Dutch politics. They're the party that finished fifth in the last elections, and in the political groupings of the European Parliament they sit not with the social democrats, but with the Communist parties.
Now, whether this will translate into anything practical at the next election; and whether this is just a consequence of local politics without wider implications that I'm reading too much into, I don't know. But I hope that this will scare mainstream parties into realising that enthusiastically leaping on the austerity bandwagon could seriously hurt them at the polls.

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