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Author | Topic: Labor Pains In Colorado | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
hooah212002 Member (Idle past 830 days) Posts: 3193 Joined:
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But if we are considering them, then we need to consider the income from every member of the family. Ahh, right. Because small children should get a job, right?? A worker with no children has just as much disposable income as one with as few as one child? Financially (strictly financially speaking) children are a black hole for income. The only ROI for money spent on children is their well-being and potentially how they will turn out. Secondly, if we ARE considering the income of every member of the family and there ARE children but only, say, one worker, then every child takes away from the income and is a negative integer."Science is interesting, and if you don't agree you can fuck off." -Dawkins
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Phat Member Posts: 18348 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0
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hooah writes: Why would you assume there wasn't? Are families not important enough to consider when calculating living cost that you should only factor in people with no children? Jon writes: Sure they are. But if we are considering them, then we need to consider the income from every member of the family. Of course there are certain families where more than one member works. If you and your significant other had kids, for example...could both of you work? Who would care for the kids?? * If a household had two or three able bodied workers, does that still excuse the fact that minimum wage jobs are helping stockholders and business owners at the expense of the workers? There are several wages paid at safeway. The workers who are department leads and head clerks usually get 40 hours and a liveable wage. There are many part time workers, and the new ones receive minimum wage and are given more hours. The older workers, part time such as myself, are often given less hours. My point is that the corporations are whining that they must compete with other non union corporations, where the top wages often never exceed ten dollars an hour....which factored for inflation is essentially a minimum wage ten years ago. Health care has doubled for us in the past six months. Some say the market determines the value of labor. This surely helps jars "guests" but does little for the lifetime residents of the US village. Unions may say that the workers should unite and argue for their own value. Corporations by and large will seek only the lowest common denominators whenever possible. I suppose that my argument is that US corporations care only for their bottom line and not for the integrity of the worker. They would argue that as long as people are willing to work for scraps, scraps are not a bad thing. Granted there are many cons to unionism. It is a front for liberal politics and special interests. The union leaders make decent salaries. The fact that tips my argument, however, is the wage disparity between union shops and non union shops.
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RAZD Member (Idle past 1434 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined: |
Hi Jon,
Why does the apartment have to have two bedrooms? (1) it's a metric. The cost of a one bedroom apt is not that much less. (2) Because in days past a family had one working member while the other took care of children. This basic family (good ol' family values eh?) would need two bedrooms - or more if they had many children. Even if you consider both parents working there are areas where 80 hours at minimum wage is not sufficient ... ... and they still need to buy food and pay for utilities, transportation to work, etc. Enjoy.by our ability to understand Rebel American Zen Deist ... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ... to share. Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)
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Jon Inactive Member |
Secondly, if we ARE considering the income of every member of the family and there ARE children but only, say, one worker, then every child takes away from the income and is a negative integer. Why are you still pretending there can only be one worker?Love your enemies!
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crashfrog Member (Idle past 1496 days) Posts: 19762 From: Silver Spring, MD Joined: |
Yes. What part of that strikes you as unreasonable?
How many people's income should it require to rent a single apartment?
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Jon Inactive Member |
The cost of a one bedroom apt is not that much less. Of course it is. Don't be silly.
This basic family (good ol' family values eh?) would need two bedrooms - or more if they had many children. Well that's not the employer's problem.
Because in days past a family had one working member while the other took care of children. Folk need to stop living in the past.Love your enemies!
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hooah212002 Member (Idle past 830 days) Posts: 3193 Joined:
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If you and your significant other had kids, for example...could both of you work? Who would care for the kids?? I've been lucky to get jobs that make well over minimum wage, but for some reason or another been in situations where it's not enough (I have a history of poor poor financial decisions, but am clearing that up as of late). Every time it comes up where my significant other at the time should look for a job, we've found that she would have to make substantially more than minimum wage in order to even cover the cost of child care. That's not even factoring in the idea of sending your small child (toddler, infant) to a sitter while both parents work all the time just to get by. Of course, if you absolutely have to do that, then by all means do it. I, personally, would prefer to be strapped for cash than dump my kids off at daycare where they get bounced around (and I have done exactly that). Moreover, I find it disgusting that other people feel they have the ability to dictate what is good for someone else or what other people should be able to afford. There is a saying that is something like "don't judge a man until you've walked a mile in his shoes"."Science is interesting, and if you don't agree you can fuck off." -Dawkins
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hooah212002 Member (Idle past 830 days) Posts: 3193 Joined: |
I'm going to go ahead and assume you have no family of your own or if you do, you've been fortunate enough to have substantial employment... News flash: there are poor people in the world who are either single PARENT families or have situations that negate the spouse getting a job.
See my message 22. Edited by hooah212002, : No reason given. Edited by hooah212002, : No reason given."Science is interesting, and if you don't agree you can fuck off." -Dawkins
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Jon Inactive Member |
I suppose that my argument is that US corporations care only for their bottom line and not for the integrity of the worker. Sure. That's exactly what they're designed to do.Love your enemies!
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Jon Inactive Member |
I'm going to go ahead and assume you have no family of your own. So you have no reason for assuming only one worker?Love your enemies!
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Buzsaw Inactive Member |
Phat writes: Union wages are what saves a middle class of consumers, however...nobody can help the economy (apart from wealthy stockholders) much by making $8.00 an hour...especially with inflation being factored in. I am open to ideas concerning this grim economic situation. ................... Republicans crow about creating jobs, but what good are minimum wage jobs in todays economic dynamic? Union jobs are what obliterates the middle class employment and of consumers of American products. . It is the union thug leaders who oppose right to work laws, ever working to legislate and implement laws which forbid competitive arbitration for contracts. For example, here in NY state all government jobs are not open to best price bidding but must be expensive union labor. This hurts the middle class whose tax $$ must pay the union thugocracy. Union dues, regardless of edeology of the payers, is essentially a bribe/contribution to the Democratic establishment which in turn mandates union expensive contracts for employment. The NEA equally mandates teachers union membership for the same reason. Dues, regardless of affiliation go to the coffers of the Obama type establishment. As for creating jobs, can you blame a company who has the choice of paying union labor or foreign workers for going offshore for employment. I don't. Companies are committed to the best $$ return for their stockholders. That's the only sensible alternative. So Phat, you need to appreciat the stockholders, who for the most part are the middle class. Whether or not they are middle or high income, without them, there would be no commerce in the US an we would be as the Muslim block of nations and other third world countries who produce nothing, including jobs. I didn't have time to review so bear with errors. BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW. The Immeasurable Present Eternally Extends the Infinite Past And Infinitely Consumes The Eternal Future. Someone wisely said something ;ike, "Before fooling with a fool, make sure the fool is a fool."
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hooah212002 Member (Idle past 830 days) Posts: 3193 Joined: |
I've already explained why that is not always the case. If you aren't going to address anything other than one sentence of my replies, there is no further reason to have this discussion.
"Science is interesting, and if you don't agree you can fuck off." -Dawkins
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RAZD Member (Idle past 1434 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined:
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Hi Jon,
Of course it is. Don't be silly. Of course it isn't (assertion is so easy). If you claim it isn't then provide the evidence. In a single bedroom apt you rent a kitchen area with appliances, living area, dining area, bathroom and a bedroom. When you add a second bedroom you do not double all these areas or even increase them in size. The added square feet of the second bedroom is a fraction of the square feet in a single bedroom apt. Curiously retail space is rented on the basis of sq ft.
Well that's not the employer's problem. No, but under the social contract it is his obligation to pay a fair wage for work performed. How you judge fair wage is by how much it can support a small family. This was the original basis for the federal minimum wage. The picture I posted above show graphically why there is so much poverty in the US.
Folk need to stop living in the past. Yes, I'd much rather live in a future that paid a fair wage, than go back to the past when child labor was a factor in family values. Enjoyby our ability to understand Rebel American Zen Deist ... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ... to share. Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)
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hooah212002 Member (Idle past 830 days) Posts: 3193 Joined:
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Folk need to stop living in the past. They have stopped. Which is why single parent households are rampant. "Science is interesting, and if you don't agree you can fuck off." -Dawkins
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RAZD Member (Idle past 1434 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined:
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Hi hooah212002,
For example: the Federal minimum wage is $7.25, while the minimum wage in GA is a paltry $5.15. Live on that. Even worse, do that on a part-time job basis, where most minimum wage jobs are (also allows employers to opt out of benefits for the workers, so two part-time jobs do not get you the same total package as full time work with benefits. I paid over $15,000 for health insurance last year for just the two of us, and there is no way a family with both working at minimum wage could afford that and a two bedroom apt. Enjoy.by our ability to understand Rebel American Zen Deist ... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ... to share. Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)
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