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Author
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Topic: Did Jesus Exist? by Bart Ehrman
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Theodoric
Member Posts: 9201 From: Northwest, WI, USA Joined: 08-15-2005 Member Rating: 3.2
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Message 210 of 563 (915433)
02-13-2024 4:02 PM
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Reply to: Message 208 by PaulK
02-13-2024 3:58 PM
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What points? All I see are assertions. Care to make those points in a logical evidenced manner? You claim you have never heard a good argument for mythicism. I gave you sources. I can give you more, but we all know you will ignore them. Edited by Theodoric, .
What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence. -Christopher Hitchens Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts "God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness. If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 208 by PaulK, posted 02-13-2024 3:58 PM | | PaulK has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 213 by PaulK, posted 02-13-2024 4:14 PM | | Theodoric has replied |
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Theodoric
Member Posts: 9201 From: Northwest, WI, USA Joined: 08-15-2005 Member Rating: 3.2
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Message 211 of 563 (915434)
02-13-2024 4:03 PM
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Reply to: Message 209 by PaulK
02-13-2024 4:00 PM
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what is the simple question? Trust me you are not embarrassing me.
What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence. -Christopher Hitchens Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts "God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness. If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 209 by PaulK, posted 02-13-2024 4:00 PM | | PaulK has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 214 by PaulK, posted 02-13-2024 4:17 PM | | Theodoric has replied |
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Theodoric
Member Posts: 9201 From: Northwest, WI, USA Joined: 08-15-2005 Member Rating: 3.2
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Message 216 of 563 (915439)
02-13-2024 4:25 PM
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Reply to: Message 214 by PaulK
02-13-2024 4:17 PM
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I answered that. Did you not understand my answer? In what way is my answer not clear?
What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence. -Christopher Hitchens Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts "God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness. If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 214 by PaulK, posted 02-13-2024 4:17 PM | | PaulK has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 218 by PaulK, posted 02-13-2024 4:32 PM | | Theodoric has replied |
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Theodoric
Member Posts: 9201 From: Northwest, WI, USA Joined: 08-15-2005 Member Rating: 3.2
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Message 217 of 563 (915440)
02-13-2024 4:30 PM
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Reply to: Message 213 by PaulK
02-13-2024 4:14 PM
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I just pulled up all your posts. I do not see any valid points, just "what if" statements and musings. If you made any points I fail to see what they are. You certainly made no points in replies to me.
What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence. -Christopher Hitchens Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts "God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness. If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 213 by PaulK, posted 02-13-2024 4:14 PM | | PaulK has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 219 by PaulK, posted 02-13-2024 4:33 PM | | Theodoric has replied |
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Theodoric
Member Posts: 9201 From: Northwest, WI, USA Joined: 08-15-2005 Member Rating: 3.2
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Message 220 of 563 (915443)
02-13-2024 4:42 PM
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Reply to: Message 218 by PaulK
02-13-2024 4:32 PM
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My answer seems quite clear and I even clarified my point as you seem unable to understand it.
Me writes: No. His name could have been Ralph. My point is how do we decide someone was the basis of Jesus if he has none of the characteristics of Jesus.
What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence. -Christopher Hitchens Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts "God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness. If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 218 by PaulK, posted 02-13-2024 4:32 PM | | PaulK has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 222 by PaulK, posted 02-13-2024 4:50 PM | | Theodoric has replied |
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Theodoric
Member Posts: 9201 From: Northwest, WI, USA Joined: 08-15-2005 Member Rating: 3.2
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Message 221 of 563 (915444)
02-13-2024 4:44 PM
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Reply to: Message 219 by PaulK
02-13-2024 4:33 PM
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Or if you wanted an honest discussion, you could reiterate what the points are that you feel you presented. Then again that would take honesty and integrity.
What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence. -Christopher Hitchens Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts "God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness. If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 219 by PaulK, posted 02-13-2024 4:33 PM | | PaulK has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 223 by PaulK, posted 02-13-2024 4:51 PM | | Theodoric has not replied |
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Theodoric
Member Posts: 9201 From: Northwest, WI, USA Joined: 08-15-2005 Member Rating: 3.2
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Message 224 of 563 (915448)
02-13-2024 4:56 PM
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Reply to: Message 222 by PaulK
02-13-2024 4:50 PM
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ok I am confused. You obviously do not want an honest discussion. I obviously have no idea why my answer is not adequate. In an honest debate, it would be incumbent upon you to explain why my answer was inadequate. Good day sir! If you want an honest, adult discussion on the subject I am willing. Until then, Good day sir!
What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence. -Christopher Hitchens Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts "God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness. If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 222 by PaulK, posted 02-13-2024 4:50 PM | | PaulK has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 225 by PaulK, posted 02-13-2024 5:06 PM | | Theodoric has replied |
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Theodoric
Member Posts: 9201 From: Northwest, WI, USA Joined: 08-15-2005 Member Rating: 3.2
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Message 227 of 563 (915451)
02-13-2024 5:14 PM
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Reply to: Message 225 by PaulK
02-13-2024 5:06 PM
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It doesn't take a Rhodes scholar to infer that if I would accept Ralph I would accept a variation in the name Jesus. But I guess trying to be a bit humorous is lost on some people. The name is irrelevant to my argument. How removed from the Jesus dude of the Bible can someone be and still be the "real person" behind the myths? Why do you feel there needs to be a human model? Did I still not answer?
What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence. -Christopher Hitchens Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts "God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness. If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 225 by PaulK, posted 02-13-2024 5:06 PM | | PaulK has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 230 by PaulK, posted 02-13-2024 5:23 PM | | Theodoric has replied |
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Theodoric
Member Posts: 9201 From: Northwest, WI, USA Joined: 08-15-2005 Member Rating: 3.2
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Message 228 of 563 (915452)
02-13-2024 5:20 PM
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Reply to: Message 226 by ICANT
02-13-2024 5:06 PM
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Tacitus was addressed and dismissed here almost 20 years ago. The rest of your post is preaching and using the Bible. https://www.evcforum.net/dm.php?control=page&t=8000&mlist...TACITUS (c.112CE) Roughly 80 years after the alleged events Tacitus allegedly wrote a (now) famous passage about "Christ" - this passage has several problems however: * Tacitus uses the term "procurator", used in his later times, but not correct for the actual period, when "prefect" was used. * Tacitus names the person as "Christ", when Roman records could not possibly have used this name (it would have been "Jesus, son of Joseph" or similar.) * Tacitus accepts the recent advent of Christianity, which was against Roman practice (to only allow ancient and accepted cults and religions.) * (No-one refers to this passage for a millenium, even early Christians who actively sought such passages.) Thus, even if the Tacitus passage is not a later interpolation, it is not evidence of a historical Jesus based on earlier Roman records, but merely a few details which Tacitus gathered from Christian stories circulating in his time (c.f. Pliny.)
What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence. -Christopher Hitchens Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts "God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness. If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 226 by ICANT, posted 02-13-2024 5:06 PM | | ICANT has replied |
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Theodoric
Member Posts: 9201 From: Northwest, WI, USA Joined: 08-15-2005 Member Rating: 3.2
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Message 231 of 563 (915455)
02-13-2024 5:55 PM
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Reply to: Message 230 by PaulK
02-13-2024 5:23 PM
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Irrelevant. If there was historical evidence for such a person then it would be reasonable to consider that he was the basis for the Jesus of the bible. There is no one in the historical record that meets those criteria so your point is moot.
What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence. -Christopher Hitchens Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts "God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness. If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 230 by PaulK, posted 02-13-2024 5:23 PM | | PaulK has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 235 by PaulK, posted 02-13-2024 11:57 PM | | Theodoric has replied |
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Theodoric
Member Posts: 9201 From: Northwest, WI, USA Joined: 08-15-2005 Member Rating: 3.2
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Message 234 of 563 (915465)
02-13-2024 8:14 PM
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Reply to: Message 232 by ICANT
02-13-2024 7:08 PM
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Good day Sir! I have no desire to discuss this issue with you.
What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence. -Christopher Hitchens Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts "God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness. If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 232 by ICANT, posted 02-13-2024 7:08 PM | | ICANT has seen this message but not replied |
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Theodoric
Member Posts: 9201 From: Northwest, WI, USA Joined: 08-15-2005 Member Rating: 3.2
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Message 239 of 563 (915478)
02-14-2024 12:04 AM
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Reply to: Message 235 by PaulK
02-13-2024 11:57 PM
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Why is my point worthless? This is where you are supposed your assertions with an argument and facts.
What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence. -Christopher Hitchens Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts "God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness. If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 235 by PaulK, posted 02-13-2024 11:57 PM | | PaulK has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 240 by PaulK, posted 02-14-2024 12:10 AM | | Theodoric has replied |
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Theodoric
Member Posts: 9201 From: Northwest, WI, USA Joined: 08-15-2005 Member Rating: 3.2
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Message 241 of 563 (915480)
02-14-2024 12:18 AM
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Reply to: Message 240 by PaulK
02-14-2024 12:10 AM
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but there is no historical Jesus. Just because you can conceive of something does not make it true or relevant. I can conceive of an Eleanor Roosevelt with sword in place of her right arm. Doesn't make it real.
What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence. -Christopher Hitchens Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts "God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness. If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 240 by PaulK, posted 02-14-2024 12:10 AM | | PaulK has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 242 by PaulK, posted 02-14-2024 12:19 AM | | Theodoric has replied |
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Theodoric
Member Posts: 9201 From: Northwest, WI, USA Joined: 08-15-2005 Member Rating: 3.2
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Message 256 of 563 (915498)
02-14-2024 8:43 AM
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Reply to: Message 242 by PaulK
02-14-2024 12:19 AM
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There only has to be one argument. There is no evidence. Maybe you should find some evidence. Being a dick isn't working for you.
What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence. -Christopher Hitchens Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts "God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness. If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 242 by PaulK, posted 02-14-2024 12:19 AM | | PaulK has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 270 by PaulK, posted 02-14-2024 12:48 PM | | Theodoric has not replied |
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Theodoric
Member Posts: 9201 From: Northwest, WI, USA Joined: 08-15-2005 Member Rating: 3.2
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Message 257 of 563 (915499)
02-14-2024 8:47 AM
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Reply to: Message 244 by PaulK
02-14-2024 12:31 AM
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Present evidence. The gospels are less of evidence for a historical Jesus than the writings of Mark Twain are for Tom Sawyer. At least we know about Mark Twain. We know his real name and we know of his other writings.
What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence. -Christopher Hitchens Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts "God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness. If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 244 by PaulK, posted 02-14-2024 12:31 AM | | PaulK has not replied |
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