Christianity and the End Times

Once again you simply try to palm the pea, con the rubes, change the subject, move the goal posts. The issue was whether or not Genesis 1:1 (and all of Genesis 1) was factually correct or true and the reality is that Genesis 1:1 is factually false, not true, incorrect.You do not want to actually study anything, just market your Cults Dogma.

And you are being as dishonest as jaywill.I never made such an argument as you will admit if you have any honesty. Bullshit Phat. What inspired the writers is irrelevant to what is actually written. If you want to assert that God inspired them to write factually false material then make the case for your position.The issue is that I posted that Genesis 1:1 was factually false. jaywill challenged me to support that.I did.And the jaywill started his typical tap dance routine of claiming I did not prove God did not create all that is.That of course is just a classic Christian Cult of Ignorance and Dishonesty tactic, change the subject.You are continuing that tactic by misrepresenting any argument I have made.

Still trying to avoid addressing the topic? No, you are not right. Based on the evidence of what is actually written I reach the conclusion that God did NOT inspire or direct or edit or proof read or redact or influence what is written in the Bible. The evidence to support that conclusion are the factual errors, the mutually exclusive contradictory passages, the multiple and evolving versions of many tales as well as the general structure of the stories themselves. You are either wrong or being dishonest regarding the character of the Source. As pointed out above, the Bible is filled with factual errors, mutually exclusive contradictory passages, multiple and evolving versions of many tales as well as the general folk tale structure of the stories themselves. If God is the SOURCE then the SOURCE created factual errors, mutually exclusive contradictory passages, multiple and evolving versions of many tales as well as the general folk tale structure of the stories themselves. That makes the SOURCE Coyote or Loki. Bullshit Phat. Even taking quotes from me out of context you cannot possibly show I ever made so utterly stupid an argument as what you originally claimed I made. Phat in Message 1122

But the serpent in the Eden myth told the truth and deceived no one. It is the God in the Eden story that lies, deceives, creates an attractive nuisance and then denies responsibility for creating the mess.

Utter nonsense Faith. There is nothing in Genesis 2&3 that shows they died spiritually or that they would not have died had they not eaten he fruit of knowledge. They might have become immortal had they eaten from the Tree of Life but they had not and so would have died just like any other living things (except perhaps for certain clonal critters). Nor is there any indication they no longer communicated with God as they had before.It is the God that is the liar when She says they would die the day they ate from the fruit. The serpent said that if they would eat from the tree of knowledge they would become more like God and in fact, the God character says that is exactly what happened. That's what scared the God character so much She had to chase them out of the Garden while they had not yet been made immortal.

That does not change the facts or truth of what was actually written Faith but only represents the picayune little god your Cult has created.The story says there was no Fall.The story says that Adam & Eve became more like God.The story says the serpent told the truth and in fact the God character in the Bible affirms that the serpent told the truth and says directly that they have become more like god.Adam & Eve did not die spiritually or stop communicating with God or stop receiving blessings from God.If you believe the Bible, if you are a "Biblical" Christian, then you should at least try to be honest about what the Bible says.

And, as jar has pointed out to you repeatedly it is not the motive that is suspect but rather the arguments that should be addressed against the evidence available.I challenge jaywill not based on his motives but rather his behavior, his constant misrepresentation of what others post, his constant tactic of taking passages out of context, his constant changing the topic and moving the goal posts and trying to change the subject and insert irrelevancies unrelated to the topic being discussed. I try to do the same when it is someone opposing theology and religion.When we see behavior like jaywill we can easily determine the purpose and effects of his tactics but not the motive; is he trying to make Christianity look stupid and dishonest or is he simply reflecting the dogma of his cult? Is he intentionally lying or does he actually believe the nonsense he posts? Those are motive questions and honestly I can not think of anyway the actual motives short of asking the person and then accepting their answer.Motives are no where near as important as the content. The snake in Gen 2&3 may well have had a motive of creating mischief but that does not change the fact that in the story the snake told the truth and the God lied. And no where in the story is there any information that would show us the snake's motive.

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Genesis 3 King James Version (KJV)

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3 Now the serpent was more subtil than any beast of the field which the Lord God had made. And he said unto the woman, Yea, hath God said, Ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden?

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2 And the woman said unto the serpent, We may eat of the fruit of the trees of the garden:

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3 But of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die.

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4 And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die:

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5 For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.

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6 And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat.

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7 And the eyes of them both were opened, and they knew that they were naked; and they sewed fig leaves together, and made themselves aprons.

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That's simple. I simply report what is actually written. That is not an agenda other than being honest. I only report what apologists and Biblical Christians in general actually do. If you consider that denigration then perhaps you should step back and reappraise the actions. It is not my message Phat but simply reporting what the Bible says Jesus told us to do.

What the hell does that have to do with the topic or are you simply once again trying to con the rubes, palm the pea, move the goal posts and sell your snake oil?Are you asking what does the actual evidence show? And here we get your answer to my question. What you want from me is some fantasy, something based on some "philosophy" rather than anything based on reality or the evidence.Well child, not playing that game.

In Genesis 2&3, yes, in that story the God lies and the snake tells the truth. Bullshit, there is no hero in the story found in Genesis 2&3.Have you ever even read Genesis 2&3? And so once again you try to change the subject.

I have no respect for those perverting the Bible and Christianity. What does that have to do with the topic Phat? With you I get the feeling you simply can't follow a topic rather than intentionally try to change the topic so let's try to follow this subject.What does any of that have to do with Christianity and the End Times?

I have no respect for snake oil salesmen.It is not that I want people to discuss the topic in some particular way but they should try to address the topic rather than try to misdirect the audience attention and hope no one notices they changed the topic.And I certainly don't get angry; no one here is sufficient to make me angry. I do try to point out when attempts are made to sell snake oil though.For example, look at the sub-title and the try to find anywhere that I championed the serpent.

HUH?Where do you get anything like that from what you quoted from John 18?

You're just making shit up again jaywill; none of that is in the story written in Genesis 2&3. Also absolutely none of that has anything to do with Christianity and the End Times.

Again, you are simply making shit up and perverting what is actually written in the Genesis 2&3 story. There is nothing in the story about being separated from God or even in the following stories about Adam & Eve.And they did not die the day they ate from the Tree of Knowledge no matter how many times you claim they did.